Am i being stupid? Why is it only lesbians who are being told they need to have sex with transwomen?

[StealthPolarBear]

Presumably straight men are also coming under fire for trabsphobia?

Of course men can be women (women is a feeling not a being, you know) and lesbians should accept penetrative sex (move on with the times, dinosaurs). We are in the age of male control.

When we point out the issues with this, we are quite obviously put back in our place as women should concur with men. Areas that they control:
Feelings (gender before sex)
Language (gender before sex)
Rights (gender before sex)

But… does that mean I’m transphobic if I don’t want to have sex with a female identifying as male? By that logic, aren’t all straight people transphobic? It’s a nonsense- the snake starts to eat its own tail.

RE. 'Nobody is forcing you to have sex'

When TRAs like Riley Dennis, Nancy Kelly etc. tell homosexual women to 'evaluate your preferences' or 'do some deep thinking', what do you think their end goal is?

If a lesbian 'evaluates her preferences' and finds she is still homosexual and unwilling to sleep with the people she's supposed to, what is she supposed to do? How would the aforementioned TRAs receive this outcome? Or do they assume that lesbianism is so unnatural and flimsy that any amount of 'rethought' should naturally cancel it out?

At a push it's 'too bad you're homosexual - we'd rather you weren't.'
This appears to stretch rather quickly to rape rhetoric when socially-conscious women are compared to racists and bigots for being homosexual.

Lesbian: I only fancy women.
TW: I'm a woman and fancy women.
Lesbian: but women don't have a penis.
TW: rethink, repent, bigot, Nazi!

And TW say to lesbians be kind, but why can't they be kind, and realistic!

@NewlyGranny

If TWAW , no exceptions, and some profess to be lesbians, can't they date each other and leave lesbians who don't like penises in their love life alone?

This,

Or the trendy pansexuals?

A good set of questions to ask

extract

10a) if the only way to eradicate genital preference in a woman was through exploration of gender theory and re-framing of her perceptions of what it means to be a man or woman, would this be an appropriate response?

10b) if the only way to eradicate genital preference in a woman was through damaging her opportunities to access employment, housing, and social support networks as a response to non-compliance, would this be an appropriate response?

10c) if the only way to eradicate genital preference in a woman was through re-education at a dedicated facility, would this be an appropriate response?

10d) if the only way to eradicate genital preference in a woman was through aversion therapy — inducing, for example, intense self-loathing and worthlessness in response to undesirable feelings– would this be an appropriate response?

10e) if the only way to eradicate genital preference in a woman was through electroshock therapy, would this be an appropriate response?

10f) if the only way to eradicate genital preference in a woman was throughinternment followed by six months of brothel work followed by murder, would this be an appropriate response?

10g) if not, why not?

From apacificisland.wordpress.com/2017/02/14/unanswered-unanswerable-alt-title-agenda/

So these TW complaining would be happy being bummed by a cock?

Because being a transwoman is about exerting power over biological woman. Invading private spaces, adopting dress codes and roles previously reserved for biological women, parodying women, telling women what to think and say, flashing penis to pre-pubescent girls in changing rooms, attacking the careers of professionally successful women, demanding lesbians have sex with them… It isn’t about sexuality, and it certainly isn’t about sexual attraction. It’s about feeling powerful. They don’t want to be with straight men, because straight men don’t make them feel powerful. (And straight mental aren’t so easily bullied as, say, a teenage lesbian.)

Oh yeah and taking sports awards that rightly belong to women and demanding that women applaud them while they do so 👀

How come on the “spiked by injection” thread in the other section Mumsnet intervened to advise posters read the rules about We Believe You as posters were talking about Facebook posts being urban myths but EVERY thread on this topic has certain posters effectively calling women liars for speaking about rape and coercion?

I don’t want these threads removed but maybe Mishy et al should read up on it, eh?

@Deliriumoftheendless

How come on the “spiked by injection” thread in the other section Mumsnet intervened to advise posters read the rules about We Believe You as posters were talking about Facebook posts being urban myths but EVERY thread on this topic has certain posters effectively calling women liars for speaking about rape and coercion?

I don’t want these threads removed but maybe Mishy et al should read up on it, eh?

That’s a really good point

@mnhq - can you comment..?

I presume it’s because the majority of posters a) do not want these threads removed b) in general posters want the nasty comments to stand to show what the attitude of some allies actually is.

So if no one is reporting then it won’t be drawn to MNHQ’s attention, but I followed the injection thread- apart from comments towards one, very odd poster, I didn’t get the impression anyone disbelieved spikings happen (clearly they do) just that the spread of the needle story seemed too close to fear mongering urban myth territory to not comment upon it.

Whereas here we have numerous posters denying that these allegations have ever happened ie flat out calling women who have been raped liars- which surely contradicts MNs We Believe You stance and is worthy of comment.

Do other threads about rape which attract MRAs go without comment?

It’s fairly unbelievable that on the feminist boards of Mumsnet it’s seen as acceptable to call rape victims liars.

Why is this ok?

Doing @mhhq doesn’t do anything. You need to either report your own post or use the ‘contact us’ type of thing.

If there are posts you think break talk guidelines and you don’t want to leave them there to expose those posters for what they are, then it’s up to you to report them.

I don’t understand that if TWAW why aren’t they open to dating each other. Genitals don’t matter.

How come on the “spiked by injection” thread in the other section Mumsnet intervened to advise posters read the rules about We Believe You as posters were talking about Facebook posts being urban myths but EVERY thread on this topic has certain posters effectively calling women liars for speaking about rape and coercion?

I pointed this out repeatedly on the WiSpa threads. I'd like to see MN have a no tolerance policy on people questioning if people who say they have been raped/flashed at/sexually harassed are lying.

@StTherese

I read an article about this in the DM (sorry) yesterday. I was left shaking my head. Why aren't straight men in the firing line for not wanting to sleep with a TW? Or gay men for not wanting a trans man?

Just another excuse to bash women as transphobic.

Simple, isn't it? Most TW are heterosexual so have no interest in straight men, therefore haven't even tried to pressure them. The few homosexual TW will have found someone who actually wants to sleep with them. Not forgetting that men feel no obligation to #bekind and don't care what names they get called. On threads about pronouns, in posters' workplaces it's always the women who diligently add them to their signatures, hardly ever the men.

There is some pressure being brought upon gay men by TM (see: "boxer ceiling") but gay men have had male socialisation and are therefore more confident in telling them where to go.

Every thread talking about lesbians being coerced or forced into sex they don't want has had the usual pro-TRA saying they are lying, it's unsubstantiated, it doesn't happen.

I don't think I've seen a single one referring to the survey which says "I believe these women".
I've found their refusal to engage in good faith at times frustrating, laughable, validating to my own beliefs. And they've hinted (although always refused to answer straight out) that same-sex attraction is wrong and bigoted, which they are often called out on.

But to post making it clear that they are calling these women liars is still eye-opening. They couldn't be any clearer about the contempt they hold for women.

I'm amazed the posts stand - I queried on another thread if calling rape victims liars was within Talk Guidelines but I hadn't seen the "we believe her" policy.

I basically agree with Erish- but at the same time I think it’s very valuable that it’s shown that these “be kind” “rights aren’t pie” “inclusive” types are actually no different to MRAs who will absolutely call women liars if they speak about rape when it looks bad on the cause they support.

So look - look hard- if you feel GC women/feminists defending women’s rights are “as bad” be aware that TRAs almost never say “we believe her” they say “this doesn’t happen” “it’s a non existent problem” “it’s only a few women anyway” “it doesn’t matter.”

You don’t need wild accusations when posters in threads here are saying “nah, they’re lying.” It’s all there.

Read it and remember.

@StealthPolarBear

Hmm transwomen are women in every sense The majority of women are attacted to men Straight men need to accept transwomen as sexual partners, penis and all, or examone their transphobia, i think

I was going to write something pithy , but then realised you are being ironic.

You are being ironic aren’t you? Because of all the men I have ever slept with not one has bemoaned my lack of a penis, so obviously I have in my own small way been encouraging them in their transphobia all these years. Oops.

There're are men whose sexual fetish is to screw a lesbian, or to force a woman (it's the power thing obviously). If they 'become' women themselves then they score even more, as how can a lesbian object to sleeping with another 'lesbian' or a woman object to being importuned by a man? The fact that this 'lesbian' and this man are one and the same person just means he has double the opportunity.....

[quote andyoldlabour]This very subject is being discussed on another forum, no punches pulled. The majority think it shocking that lesbians should be coerced into having a sexual relationship with transwomen. We just need more light on this subject, more articles like the BBC one and definitely more examples of the Stonewall CEO showing their colours.

www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=205&t=1957520[/quote]
That's a glorious thread. I particularly liked when a poster called their resident TRA "a misogynistic piece of s*". These men get it.

Everybody knows lesbians are pressured for sex by transwomen. There is far too much anecdotal evidence to ignore. Otherwise what are they doing on lesbian dating apps?

No men, however they identify, should be anywhere near a lesbian dating app.

viques ironic and very very angry