Am i being stupid? Why is it only lesbians who are being told they need to have sex with transwomen?

[StealthPolarBear]

Presumably straight men are also coming under fire for trabsphobia?

No-one is forcing anyone to sleep with anyone. Genital/sexual perferences are all valid and personal.

Why do TRA do this??

Here's a whole article, there are entire forums and LGBTQ+ spaces, filled with lesbians who have been saying for years how they're coerced and manipulated emotionally into sexual interaction with TW. It's right there. We've all read it.

TRA: "It never happens"

"Even if it was agreeable that transwomen are male, perhaps you should consider sexuality is not just opposite sex related. Whom people are attracted to is not the same as any physical sex id."

@MishyJDI this makes very little sense. I am well aware that human sexuality is not only opposite sex attracted. You've made a large assumption about me. Probably without even realising.

I was quite clear that I was talking in general. The vast majority of male-born people are opposite sex attracted. Some are same sex attracted and some are attracted to both sexes. As TW are male born, the same will be true about them, in general. They will be attracted to female bodied people. But heterosexual women are not likely to be interested in male bodied people who are making efforts to appear as feminine as possible, especially if they have had surgery. Plus as others have said, that isn't validating for someone who views themselves as a woman attracted to other women. So lesbians become the focus, for the majority, rather than straight men.

Who you are attracted to is absolutely about someone's physical sex. Lesbians are not physically attracted to male bodies. Gay men are not physically attracted to female bodies. To suggest that they might be able to overcome this orientation if they tried hard enough is homophobic.

No-one is forcing anyone to sleep with anyone.

Except people DO force others to sleep with them. It's called rape. Or coercion. There are lots and lots of people who want to make people sleep with them against their wishes. Pretending that people don't do that is ridiculous.

Also when I say people what I really mean is men. Men do this. Whatever their Gender identity, there are always men who want to coerce and rape women. I don't know why TRAs believe that males who ID as trans are somehow different to any other group of males. They are not.

It is interesting to see the "how many is enough?" question being answered.

When the number is small, you always need N+1. "It's just a couple of anecdotes". That's what Mishy and Catherina would have said if that GetTheLOut research hadn't been mentioned. And obviously we know the reporters are "anti-trans" because a proper ally would keep their mouth shut if this happened to them, like a proper Catholic would cover for the priests.

But by including that research, so the number of reports becomes big - too big to dismiss, those reports magically turn into a "poll" and it's not "representative". You willfully ignore the content of the reports - they're just too many for you to care about.

Real classy.

perhaps you should consider sexuality is not just opposite sex related

Good grief this entire thread is about lesbians

TW don't want to sleep with these women anyway because it only confirms their maleness, unless the woman's sexuality is redefined as "bi" or even "lesbian" for the duration of that relationship. And again, some het women especially of the younger generation would actually go along with that, are actually going along with that.
I disagree with that obviously, but it's happening with younger people right now.

I'm just thinking of the responses if this were posted on either MN AIBU or Relationships. The first might well be full of 'cool' responses and the latter more likely to be questions about red flags and relationship dynamics.

That much-vaunted suicide statistic that the TRA movement loves to spread? Twenty-three participants. That's it.

So I'd say 80 is pretty going.

No-one is forcing anyone to sleep with anyone.

Is that what you usually say Mishy about other articles about sexual coercion and rape - say of women by straight men?

When you read an article on the BBC about rape your response normally is automatic disbelief and dismissal, “this never happens”? Or is that only when anyone trans is involved?

“Give your head a wobble” as they say on Twitter.

@Jenala

I've never thought of it this way. Why do TW get to be 'lesbians' and only want to sleep with women, with no one pushing them to accept biological men in their sexual desires? Very few if any of the fuckers I see spouting all this nonsense about genital fetishists and how it's about the person not their body actually want to have sex with anyone other than a biological female. The misogyny is RIGHT THERE for all to see and it's not seen. It blows my mind

And the homophobia. Telling lesbians to accept penises is homophobic.

Using a very biased survey from a crtitical group of only 80 people

Yet it's ok for every entirely biased survey of trans folk? Especially the old suicide stat one that's been thrown around for years using far less people?

No-one is forcing anyone to sleep with anyone. Genital/sexual perferences are all valid and personal

All the lesbians being verbally abused, thrown off dating sites etc for stating their legally protected characteristic of sexual orientation, which defines a lesbian as a same sex attracted female, would disagree. Their orientation is declared 'transphobic' because males don't like that it excludes them.

The coercion, gaslighting and emotional blackmail of young lesbians afraid of being called bigots and transphobic for not being sexually attracted to males.

Yeah, but 'no one is forcing anyone to have sex them' right?

Same old male entitlement.

@MishyJDI

I find this thread, and the whole BBC article just way-off and really deeply transphobic.

No-one is forcing anyone to sleep with anyone. Genital/sexual perferences are all valid and personal.

I believe all some people are saying is that if you simply dismiss trans, or people of colour, or people of a different race outright, then it is worth checking your thinking if that is indeed a preference or a result of some sort of phobia or prejudice.

The BBC article was laughable. Using a very biased survey from a crtitical group of only 80 people. Very odd behaviour of the BBC.

As JK says: Sleep with whomever will have you.

Just dont force yourself on somebody else. That is never acceptable.

But we all should constantly challenge our personal biases - I think that is helpful and creates a more rounded individual.

I doubt then that evidence of The Boxer Ceiling - where gay men have been subjected to homophobic abuse from TRA's, will be welcome to you.

That's the problem with reality; it just keeps on getting in the way of ideologies.

Woke Homophobia: Anti-Gay Hatred, Transcel Rage & Boxer Ceiling Abuse from Trans Activists & Gender-Identity Ideologues

As for the survey size of 80, which is obviously huge compared to the cohort of just 23 employed for the often-quoted trans suicide stats, I think that the only solution would be a wider-ranging survey of female-born lesbians, though I suspect those conducting it would have to work in an environment of constant death and rape threats from TRA's.

By-the-way, But we all should constantly challenge our personal biases is what I would expect a psychologist/psychotherapist practising gay conversion therapy to say.

@Jenala

I've never thought of it this way. Why do TW get to be 'lesbians' and only want to sleep with women, with no one pushing them to accept biological men in their sexual desires? Very few if any of the fuckers I see spouting all this nonsense about genital fetishists and how it's about the person not their body actually want to have sex with anyone other than a biological female. The misogyny is RIGHT THERE for all to see and it's not seen. It blows my mind

And people tie themselves up in knots justifying it, whike calljng lesbians bigots

Even if it was agreeable that transwomen are male

What a ridiculous statement. Of course they are male - male DNA is in every cell of their body. Nobody can change their sex.

A pre requisite to calling oneself a 'transwoman' is being male. If it wasn't they'd just be women minus the 'trans', which they most assuredly are not.

MishyJDI is explicitly calling these abused lesbians liars. Why would someone do that? Smacks of some pretty deep personal biases to me.

@MishyJDI

I find this thread, and the whole BBC article just way-off and really deeply transphobic.

No-one is forcing anyone to sleep with anyone. Genital/sexual perferences are all valid and personal.

I believe all some people are saying is that if you simply dismiss trans, or people of colour, or people of a different race outright, then it is worth checking your thinking if that is indeed a preference or a result of some sort of phobia or prejudice.

The BBC article was laughable. Using a very biased survey from a crtitical group of only 80 people. Very odd behaviour of the BBC.

As JK says: Sleep with whomever will have you.

Just dont force yourself on somebody else. That is never acceptable.

But we all should constantly challenge our personal biases - I think that is helpful and creates a more rounded individual.

I dismiss people without penises as sexual partners. Because I ama straight woman. I may choose only to sleep with white men (well man actually i am married) but if skin colour was one of my criteria for a sexual partner then i woukd be racist. Which is fine - i sleep woth who I want to but excluding a whole grpup based on skib cplouris the definition of racism. Excljding a whole group on the basis of sex is fairly fundamental to our survival as a species.

When I was a young woman, many moons ago, there were feminists who believed that no 'true 'feminist would ever have sex with a male. Young women were told that they should force themselves to have lesbian experiences to prove they were real feminists as opposed to 'unreal' ones obv. I thought that was a joke and told those who believed in such tripe to bugger off.
This whole nonsensical argument about TW who want to force/coerce lesbians into a sexual relationship is exactly the same argument. Having to prove a lack of a phobia by doing something distasteful does their cause no good and causes trauma for the victim. And, yet again, it's men dictating to women.

Are there any transwomen couples out there? Can't think of any i.e. 2 born men who identify as women.

@Imnobody4

Are there any transwomen couples out there? Can't think of any i.e. 2 born men who identify as women.

No famous ones that I know of. There is a youtuber called Gigi gorgeous who is a TW who was previously attracted to men, but then married a lesbian who then 'came out' as a transman. Two confused people I think.

It is a mystery how some TRA's are still trying to deny that lesbians are being abused because they refuse to have sex with those with-a-penis.

Yet long before the BBC expose' the evidence was already immense.

Take for instance the dedicated web site TRA Receipts which documents the threats and hatred directed against women and lesbians in particular on social media, but also to gay men. Someone earlier on the thread mentioned it is like Catholics still denying that Catholic priests were found to have abused children. Such is the unwillingness to confront and recognise their homophobia.

@Imnobody4

Are there any transwomen couples out there? Can't think of any i.e. 2 born men who identify as women.

Caitlyn Jenner and her partner.

No-one is forcing anyone to sleep with anyone.

Did you even read the article, Mishy? Some people are forcing people to sleep with them. That is the whole point of it. It's called rape. Denying rape happens is not a good drum to be banging.

@NewlyGranny

If TWAW , no exceptions, and some profess to be lesbians, can't they date each other and leave lesbians who don't like penises in their love life alone?

superbly put!

@KimikosNightmare

Heterosexual women are far more likely to find a TW sexually attractive than they find women

Why do you think that? I wouldn't be attracted to a trans woman who didn't pass just because they had a penis and I wouldnt be attracted to someone who looked like Rose of Dawn or Blaire White regardless of what they had or hadn't had done surgically as to me, they look like woman.

Surely, by definition, all heterosexually people are more likely to find someone of the opposite sex attractive than someone of the same?

Surely 100% of males are in the potential dating pool of a het woman, whereas 0% of females are?

The BBC article was laughable.

Yeah, articles about womens experiences of sexual violence always make me giggle too.