For the Attention of Posters in the "bloody terf" thread

[PurgatoryOfPotholes]

So we can stop disrupting the OP's thread, and continue the discussion here.

@334bu

*The notion that somehow a teenage cis girl would be at risk of being humiliated due to the presence of an occasional transgender schoolmate or two in the bathroom is frankly ridiculous.*

How would you know that the presence of a member of the opposite sex wouldn't traumatise her and humiliate her?

Also, why would a transgirl be humiliated by being in the presence of their schoolmates in the boys' restroom?

Do you think a student coming out as trans wouldn't be at exceedingly high risk of becoming a target of bullying?

From what I can gather, it tends to be the opposite.

But what about a boy pretending to be trans?

The overwhelming majority of rapes committed against female prisoners are committed by guards, not transgender inmates. I don't see any of you saying a peep about that little fact for some reason.

I am unaware of any statistics on this in UK prisons but I accept that this may happen as male officers are employed in some female prisons. However, the fact that male officers might abuse their position ,hardly excuses
a policy which allows the sexual assault of female prisoners by male prisoners.

@334bu

*The notion that somehow a teenage cis girl would be at risk of being humiliated due to the presence of an occasional transgender schoolmate or two in the bathroom is frankly ridiculous.*

How would you know that the presence of a member of the opposite sex wouldn't traumatise her and humiliate her?

Right, we can't risk someone being traumatized by the mere presence of a transgender person, but we can totally risk transgender kids being potentially driven to suicide by actively shaming them and forcing them to repress themselves.

What a perfectly functioning moral compass to have, where trans people's lives are just worth naturally less than us normal people being slightly uncomfortable, eh?

Like when our predecessors repressed gay people so we wouldn't have to be traumatized by the sight of two gay men kissing in public.

Have you met any teenagers? Do you think a student coming out as trans wouldn't be at exceedingly high risk of becoming a target of bullying?

It's fairly straightforward - single-sex toilets for the girls and boys, with a small number of enclosed cubicles for the trans students. Why should males use female-only facilities if they will be bullied?

lots of women (the old definition) carry spare pants at that time of the month.
especially if prone to flooding or irregular periods. i feel funny about going into the details because women ( od) already know all this and I'm not up to make wank fodder for the sick ejaculators.

Right, OK, fair enough, point taken but I was just replying to a comment on here, a '' GC'' poster made it.
By posting it automatically is likely to get commented on.
People either want to talk about it or they don't.

*Right, we can't risk someone being traumatized by the mere presence of a transgender person, but we can totally risk transgender kids being potentially driven to suicide by actively shaming them and forcing them to repress themselves.

Please follow Samaritans advice with regard to discussing suicide.

There is no need for anyone to be shamed or traumatised. All schools can provide a third space for any student who, because of their gender identity , does not wish to share facilities with members of their sex.facilities with

Why on earth would a teenager feel suicidal at being given the choice of own sex or unisex facilities?

This would clearly be a young person who was quite unwell, & demonstrating a high level of distress. Poor kid.

@CorvusPurpureus

Why on earth would a teenager feel suicidal at being given the choice of own sex or unisex facilities?

This would clearly be a young person who was quite unwell, & demonstrating a high level of distress. Poor kid.

And guess what, yelling at them that they'll "always be [gender assigned at birth]", which you do constantly at a basically society-wide basis, is certainly not helping.

And guess what, yelling at them that they'll "always be [gender assigned at birth]", which you do constantly at a basically society-wide basis, is certainly not helping.

The fact that you are conflating sex with gender identity will certainly not help any GNC child. People may well have a inner sense of gender which is at odds with their physical body but this does not mean they have changed sex and it would be wrong to persuade a vulnerable child that this was the case. Help the child to live as they wish to live but don't lie to them.

"why exactly does every trans and trans-supporting person online have to be constantly pestered about prison policy?"
because these things matter to feminists, women, who care and work for all of our sisters. women in prisons are one if of if not the most vulnerable groups in our society, most there for non violent crime, most victims of abuse, by men.
some facing prison time for non payment of tv license.
please tell me again who are the most marginalised oppressed people in our society.
and now they face being locked up with rapists. on top.
i care about these women. beacause im a feminist. and if i wasnt born with some privilege I could have been one of if them.
they've got 99 problems but the dick definitely shouldnt be one

A man who claims to be a woman should be treated with the same respect as a white person doing blackface. Transwomen have no idea what women’s lived experience is like. Women only have the rights men allow them, and this won’t change.

Oh, give over.
It is nothing like blackface and I have seen plenty of posters on MN being offended at them being black and people doing blackface being compared to being trans.

I haven’t rtft. But by the time I get to the end, it will probably @SillyStrings423

These are two accounts of the rise of toilets. The first explains the history of toilets, how women were prevented from going out in public, women campaigning for toilets as well as the need for these spaces for women’s safety and dignify. The second does not describe any of this and states women the opposite, that in fact women didn’t want these spaces but were encouraged into using them. Then discusses trans people in these spaces.

So my question once you’ve read both articles is what has changed in today’s society to make unisex or default male toilets safe and dignified for female sexed people when it wasn’t back then? Are natal women suddenly less likely to be marginalised and attacked?

First article: www.historic-uk.com/CultureUK/History-of-Womens-Public-Toilets-in-Britain/

Second article: theweek.com/articles/621109/brief-history-ladies-bathroom

Not rtft yet in case this has been asked already. Going in now….

Congrats on doing your part for the reactionary movement. Reinstating patriarchal theocracy to keep the transgenders out. Sure did wonders for women in Hungary or Poland.

It seems the transgender movement is itself a patriarchal theocracy: men attempting to impose their religious belief in gender on unwilling women.

@PurgatoryOfPotholes

"I'm not straight, I'm normal!! You're the ones who are abnormal and need a special word, not me!!"

That's what you sound like, except towards trans people instead.

Coolio. I think you sound like Verruca Salt.

Do not insult Nina Gordon

(Shimmer like a girl would be quite appropriate given this thread ‘it’s a shame you have a mind of your own now/well I don’t care I swear it’s my turn now/shimmer like a girl’)

@SpookySeason77 I have a genuine question, if you wouldn't mind sharing your thoughts on, please. I am a woman, who was sexually abused as a child, had to live in a women's DV refuge for a few months due to my dad trying to kill my mum. As a teenager I was attacked in the street by a random man, so as I'm sure you can appreciate I have a really hard time trusting men, especially in intimate situations. I have no issues with calling someone by their chosen name, preferred pronouns etc. But why does a transwoman's desire to use a woman's bathroom trump my need to feel safe, and not have a full blown panic attack if I was to identify that someone has/had a male body in that situation? In a medical situation, or rape support group, why aren't my triggers considered enough? It's really hard for some women to build the courage to go to one of these groups, and knowing that there could be a person with a penis there prevents already vulnerable women from accessing a service which was originally created for them. I completely accept that transwomen are often not safe in male toilets too, but why is their safety more important that mine? Why not a third space, so that we all have the opportunity for protection?

@allmywhat

For as long as you consider that word to describe you, you are a woman

What about non English speakers?

Or people born female who will never be able to speak or have the ability to think enough to understand the concept of women as their identity?

Are these people somehow unburdened from the problems of being a woman while their female body still requires care and protection?

[quote SillyStrings423]@Thefartingsofaofdenmarkstreet
"Womanhood is not an identity"

That's funny, considering you build your entire online identities around how special and exclusive your womanhood is.[/quote]
I sense a little bitterness here.
Damn women, thinking we are special. Exclusive womanhood? How dare we. You show us eh? Put us in our place. Can’t have women thinking too much of themselves.
Peak patriarchy straight from the horse’s mouth.

@PurgatoryOfPotholes

I hope not, because I was enjoying the pattern of SillyStrings423 SpookySeason77

and NoNotMeNoSiree doesn't have enough S's. Ruins the pattern.

I want a name like SilverShell23 to join in next!

Or sillysausages666 ?

@Ereshkigalangcleg

But trans women and trans men do feel comfortable using women's and men's restrooms respectively, especially in later stages of their transition to the point they blend in without causing any trouble, I see no reason why they shouldn't.

Interesting, so you think they shouldn't use them if they are early in their "transition" or don't "blend in"?

Quite.

What about all the bearded transwoman who identify as a woman without wanting to perform any of the associated stereotypes. Like the first ss poster was talking about. They must not be womany enough for this ss poster.

(It’s early, my children don’t sleep and the rectangle talk has me confused so remembering posters names is a stretch currently)

[quote Whatiswrongwithmyknee]@Blibbyblobby

I have loved your posts. They are clear, succinct and respectful. I am off to bed now though I expect the abuse (some of it directed at me now) will continue for a while. You can't argue with people who truly believe they are better than everyone else, so little point in trying. Anyway, I just wanted to say that tonight I was thinking that if someone asked "if you could have any person, living or dead, round for dinner, who would it be?" I'd say blibbyblobby. In all seriousness I am very glad to have people as eloquent as you elucidating the issues. Thank you to all the other women on this thread who are also refusing to be flattened by the onslaught of hate and bullying being fired at us. Sleep well all.[/quote]
I’d say Patti Smith.

Wait the thread hasn’t moved on to dinner invites? We’re still on the same point?

Damn some people are actual thought terminating cliches aren’t they. Whether or not they identify as such.

@NoNotMeNoSiree

who will not enter spaces they are not meant to.

Trans women are allowed to use women's toilets though, just like trans men are allowed to use the men's.
So not sure why you think they're not meant to.

The single sex exceptions in the equality act.

[quote SpookySeason77]@OldCrone
You do realize many trans women are already officially recognized as women on their legal documents, right?[/quote]
You realise that the single sex exceptions still apply to these transwomen right?