"Trans Criminals are not Women" says Priti Patel

[Fluffymule]

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10124021/Priti-Patel-orders-woke-police-stop-recording-offences-trans-women-female-crime-stats.html

I thought this was interesting.

So, what's the TRA argument against this going to be? Surely a backlash against this ruling from the Home Secretary by insisting these criminals, including rapists must by named as Women would simply shine huge amounts of sunlight on an unpalatable issue?

Once again, transmen conspicuously absent from this discussion which is ostensibly about "trans" criminals, sex criminals in particular. I wonder why on earth that could be, and if that could have anything at all to do with this?

Say what now? It's 2am, I've had a couple of drinks and I seem to have found a balanced article in the DM about Priti Patel saying that TW are not W when it comes to criminal offences. I'm drunk and should just go to bed, right? Or... did a prominent MP actually just say this? Crikey. The tide really is turning.

@MishyJDI

GreyhoundG1rl Yeah you do. In the same way you dont pre-judge anyone else. Transwomen are no more a threat then cis women. Punish wrong doers, not innocent women.

Isn’t your statement factually untrue? 400+ (and that’s only those convicted) transwomen rapists and 0 women rapists. Therefore transwomen are CLEARLY more of a threat than women??

@MishyJDI

GreyhoundG1rl Yeah you do. In the same way you dont pre-judge anyone else. Transwomen are no more a threat then cis women. Punish wrong doers, not innocent women.

@MishyJDI that statement is straightforwardly untrue.

There are around 120 women in prison for sex offences (a handful of whom are males with a GRC) from a population of 33 million.

There are around 80 transwomen (most recent stats given to Parliament) in prison for sex offences from a population of around 100,000.

If you'd like to offer your explanation on how that doesn't mean that transwomen offend at standard male rates, I'd be interested in hearing it. In its absence, I'm going to work on the basis that you are in ignorance of the facts.

Male people are larger, stronger, and infinitely more prone to violence, especially sexual violence. How they personally identify has no effect on that at all.

Transwomen sexually offend at the same rate as any other male. Which is roughly 2,000 times the rate females offend. And given that we have separate spaces not because we think all men are icky, but because they pose a significant and proven statistical risk, it's quite breathtaking to say that all those safeguards and rights should be stripped away the second a male person says, "I want".

It's men's rights activism, plain and simple.

Shon Faye was asked about trans women in womens prison the other day and I think its the most nonsense answer to a direct question I've ever heard.

twitter.com/Channel4News/status/1451601453022330893

The whole interview is here , absolutely no push back on the fact that most women are in prison for non violent crimes but that there are huge numbers of trans women in prison for sexual offences, even at 08:30 KGM says he doesn't know any figures and so relies on SF and theres absolutely no push back.

Fair Play For Women have worked tirelessly on this issue for years talking to the home office, the ons, courts, IPSO the press regulator, politicians and recently a factual speech by Dr. Nicola Williams at the Conservative party conference which you can watch here

Dear Politicians. Before you get asked to say “transwomen are women” make sure you know what you are signing up to

Stop conflating sex and gender identity – they are two different things!

“Female” sex offenders and “women” committing sex crimes: why can’t the media get it right?

Words matter: The press must stop misreporting a person’s sex

@Cactu

There are estimated to be 200-500,000 trans people in the UK (male and female). We know 423 transwomen have been convicted of rape alone since 2013. Rates of offending are extremely high within this group. Why is this just being brushed under the carpet?

That's a very good point. I hope there is more and more coverage of this in the media.

TIMES ARTICLE 20 OCT on FPFW Freedom of information requests FOIs

Police forces let rapists record their gender as female
archive.md/oGwYg#selection-711.0-713.118

Police forces are recording suspected and convicted rapists as female if they no longer wish to identify with their male birth sex.

Six forces, including South Yorkshire and Thames Valley, disclosed
under freedom of information laws that if someone is arrested for or convicted of rape, the official record will state the gender they chose to identify themselves as.

"Nicola Williams, director of Fair Play for Women, which submitted the requests, said: “You can’t get much more of a male crime than rape. It would be highly offensive to a woman who was raped to have it written down that her attacker was a female when clearly that was a male with a penis."

@BoreOfWhabylon

I did read somewhere on Twitter (can't find it now) that at least one SpAd was spotted at the LGBA conference.

Sorry what's a SpAd?

SpAd is Special Advisor. Ministers work with civil servants in their department and also hire their own staff including SpAd's who have their back

The thing is it may not be Priti as such.

Many people work hard behind the scenes and it's very possible that a dept or researcher or other org has raised this with them and there's no way the tories would allow their record to be stained this way given their recent stance on VAWAG.

[quote BoreOfWhabylon]SpAd
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_adviser_(UK)[/quote]

Ah ok sorry didn't rtft.

Clearly Patel has set about researching a number of things around this.

Thanks truth.

The Tories have put a heck of a lot of things on the back burner during brexit and then of course CV threw its curve ball. And many of them around safeguarding.

A blinding example is their dismissal or lack of action on recommendations around preparing for a pandemic.

As a PP said, politics in the last 5 years has been preoccupied with brexit, GE and leadership battles.

Winning more seats in the north has forced them to take notice of us.

The pandemic has raised issues to public consciousness in many areas that were already there. Eg health inequalities in different areas of the country. My personal beef is Williams' lack of interest in pupils with SEND. The new ed sec has at least acknowledged send exists. Not least as the pandemic revealed horrific inequality there.

Sadly DV rates in the pandemic and recent murders of women that hit the headlines also highlighted violence against women in the national consciousness and they've been forced to look at this seriously.

At least they are sending people to the LGBA. And finally closing loopholes.

And I thank all those women and orgs who've been working tirelessly to raise these points for far too long.

Correct me if I’m wrong:

The reason Police have recorded male offenders as female is that they were ordered to do so u dear Home Offuce guidelines.
That’s the Home Office PP heads up.

Now PP contradicts herself and orders police NOT to record male crimes as being female.

Whilst we can agree this is bringing sunlight to the issue I’m not sure it also indicates PP’s genius. However, looking forward to Keir Starmer’s response.

Shit grammar there, it's early.

Pam, do you know if that was when she was in that position?

(Cross post, my grammar is shit not yours!)

@MishyJDI

GreyhoundG1rl Yeah you do. In the same way you dont pre-judge anyone else. Transwomen are no more a threat then cis women. Punish wrong doers, not innocent women.

I think you mean transwomen are no more of a threat than other men.

Warrior, not sure of your exact question but I think you’re asking ifPP was in charge when GRC came in?
I BELIEVE (again, happy to be corrected) the original idea for allowing human to self certify and change their birth certificate came in under a Tony Blair and the Labour Party…

Linking this thread as it's relevant

AIBU to think this Home Office response is a cop out? - to "Require sex of VATP & sexual offenders be recorded throughout justice system." www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4375385-AIBU-to-think-this-Home-Office-response-is-a-cop-out-to-Require-sex-of-VATP-sexual-offenders-be-recorded-throughout-justice-system

Sounds like the lgba had a big impact

@PamDenick

Warrior, not sure of your exact question but I think you’re asking ifPP was in charge when GRC came in? I BELIEVE (again, happy to be corrected) the original idea for allowing human to self certify and change their birth certificate came in under a Tony Blair and the Labour Party…

Thanks, I suppose I was trying to gain a sense of history and it will Link back to the GRA.

However, it's clear self ID has been followed?

I suppose it shows how much impact stonewall has had too.

I imagine Nolan was listened to carefully last week by a SPAD.

@dapsnotplimsolls

I'm not sure I can cope with agreeing with Patel and Putin in the same day ...

🤣

It looks as if there is a clear policy shift from the Tories. First Liz Truss and Kemi Badenoch, with their equalities hat warning government departments about over reliance on Stonewall. Then Sajid Javid’s comments about Labour not being fit to run the NHS as they did not know what a cervix is. Then Boris and his support for the LGBA.

Now we have the Home Secretary telling police and prisons to use sex not gender.

Expect more. And expect/hope that other organisations take note and follow suit. Priti et al appear to have popular support. So stop and consider whether the wokeness is actually enhancing your reputation.

I would expect that there have been a number of good women (and a few men - hat tip to David TC Davis MP) who have been working hard behind the scenes to encourage Ministers to listen, to read and to get SpAds to research. Baroness Nicholson will be one but there will be many others. Family members, constituents, as well as those who work within the Government apparatus, and media including Conservative Woman which has been running GC articles for years. And obviously the brilliant research and lobbying from FPFW and others. Nic, pour yourself a well earned drink. A strategic battle seems to have been won.

@SpindelWhorl

A SpAd is a special adviser (to a politician), paid or unpaid.

Thx 😊 it’s good news that at least one of them were there then!