"Trans Criminals are not Women" says Priti Patel

[Fluffymule]

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10124021/Priti-Patel-orders-woke-police-stop-recording-offences-trans-women-female-crime-stats.html

I thought this was interesting.

So, what's the TRA argument against this going to be? Surely a backlash against this ruling from the Home Secretary by insisting these criminals, including rapists must by named as Women would simply shine huge amounts of sunlight on an unpalatable issue?

Are there stats on self ID v GRC for these male offenders?

Has every offender been given a GRC?

@MishyJDI

You might make that decision for yourself but why are you content to make that decision for other women and children? Particularly the women of faith who might need to withdraw from public spaces?

Just because you are a person of "faith" does not mean that faith is not bigoted and inclusive. What would Jesus do?

Jesus was a Jewish man, living 2000 years ago. I don't think he'd have been in favour of a special subset of male people having access to where the women were vulnerable and partially undressed. I've read the Old Testament and the New Testament. Have you?

If you think about it, all his apostles were men, reflecting the time in which he lived.

Nic, pour yourself a well earned drink.

Hear hear 👏

What would Jesus do? Mmnnnnn....I seem to remember something about abusers of children and millstones and the sea, so i somehow think He would not be supporting you here Mishy.

Obviously it’s hard to second guess what Jesus might say but he was known to stand up for the prostituted woman (throw the first stone incident) but he also recognised prostitution as a sin.
He also drank from the same well as ostracised members of the community.
He also followed the Ten Commandments (do not bear false witness) so if a man insisted he were a woman, he would not validate that (ie he couldn't lie). He also respected motherhood (when dying he asked his friend to look after his widowed mother), and he also was brought up by a step father so lived in a non traditional family set up…
He also had the gift of healing.

And it is Satan who is the Father of Lies.

@MishyJDI
In the time of Jesus, unlike today, men and women were equal but both had very specific sex based roles. As a result, there was far more segregation of the sexes than the western world today. Therefore Jesus, as a man of his time, would have followed the conventions of the day.

There is a lot of evidence that the disciples were actually male and female pairs and that there were 12 pairs. The women went to spread the word to women and the men to men. Men to women would have been disrespectful and absurd. This was whitewashed out of history during the 1st to the 4th century AD when men chose which biblical texts to include and exclude.

So in answer to your question, Jesus would have used the men’s.

And to clarify, when I say women and men, I am using them as intended. Sex based nouns. Those born with a vagina being women. Those born with a penis being men.

It is an incredible shame that society is no longer run along these lines as we women have had enough of being mansplained into believing that women can have penises, to move over, roll over, accept to be treated as sex objects in a porn show and to have our language destroyed a with a smile and to just be kind.

So I’d like to thank you for your question, which has given me the opportunity to clarify what Jesus would have done. HTH.

@FreeBritnee

This is why the conservatives will stay in power. They are the only party that have the balls to voice an unpopular opinion.

Bloody hell all the other parties have got it wrong for years. Someone should let them know it's only UNPOPULAR opinions that get you elected, who knew!

Just responding to the OP. That’s brilliant news. The degrading of the trust we can have in accurate statistics and record keeping by recording subjective gender instead of recording sexed reality is unforgivable. Providing individual gender validation satisfaction at the cost of imposing sweeping negative effects for women and children on their safeguarding, their dedicated services, the funding for those, any evidence-based consideration of their specific needs, is one of the most under discussed and sinister aspects of genderism dogma. It’s permanent data falsification. It allows all sorts of untrue claims to be made using our public data, which belongs to all of us, because it doesn’t reflect reality any more.

It’s so unbelievably selfish and destructive to insist that nobody has a sexed reality just because some people don’t want to acknowledge their own. It messes up data collecting for everyone especially including the very vulnerable people who rely absolutely on public services to survive . Which are allocated in response to public statistics. And it will have negative affects on trans identifying people themselves if their needs are misrepresented by performative ‘affirming’ data collection. Sex change is impossible. Biological reality and sexist gender hierarchy creates specific physical and social need affecting women and children.

Nobody in government has seemed to GAF about this before now so if Priti Patel will stop the falsifying, at least in the criminal justice system, then that is a great start. Please could Sajid Javid also do it for health and the NHS? And the relevant ministers in Education, Business, DWP etc etc? Just would be great if the ONS would say something really robust about the need for this, but IIRC didn’t they have to have some threat of legal action about the 2021 census and making sure there was going to be accurate biological sex data collection? Apologies to them if I have misremembered that.

Interesting post Mummyoflittledragon I need to look into the pairs thing.
Like Purgatory, I have read the Old and New testaments - one of the (many) things that Jesus did that was radical in his time and place was to listen to and value women. This did get rather forgotten as later Christians reverted to their ingrained patterns of behaviour, but it is there in the gospels.

If it is indeed true, this would be very welcome news.

Has anyone else tried googling for the source of this story and found only one tweet (with identical wording) and the MN version?

Puzzlin'

Oh Hooray! (If true). Well done all.
Now, fingers crossed Maya can encourage a review of judges rule book so that female rape victims etc don't have to refer to their rapists as 'women'.

@Warmduscher

Finding common ground with Priti Patel is proper doing my head in.

She's one of the only ones who has the....ahem....balls to state the obvious on this issue.

There is a lot of evidence that the disciples were actually male and female pairs and that there were 12 pairs. The women went to spread the word to women and the men to men. Men to women would have been disrespectful and absurd. This was whitewashed out of history during the 1st to the 4th century AD when men chose which biblical texts to include and exclude.

That's really interesting! I've sometimes wondered about that!

@FinallyHere I just googled 'Priti Patel Daily Mail' and the article came up near the top of the search results.

Not happy to be relying on DM articles but it sounds promising. Maybe another news outlet will report on it later.

Fascinating about the paired disciples.

There's so much history air brushes out isn't there?

Such as the history of how trans came about. (See Helen Joyce, Trans.)

@ChattyLion

Just responding to the OP. That’s brilliant news. The degrading of the trust we can have in accurate statistics and record keeping by recording subjective gender instead of recording sexed reality is unforgivable. Providing individual gender validation satisfaction at the cost of imposing sweeping negative effects for women and children on their safeguarding, their dedicated services, the funding for those, any evidence-based consideration of their specific needs, is one of the most under discussed and sinister aspects of genderism dogma. It’s permanent data falsification. It allows all sorts of untrue claims to be made using our public data, which belongs to all of us, because it doesn’t reflect reality any more.

It’s so unbelievably selfish and destructive to insist that nobody has a sexed reality just because some people don’t want to acknowledge their own. It messes up data collecting for everyone especially including the very vulnerable people who rely absolutely on public services to survive . Which are allocated in response to public statistics. And it will have negative affects on trans identifying people themselves if their needs are misrepresented by performative ‘affirming’ data collection. Sex change is impossible. Biological reality and sexist gender hierarchy creates specific physical and social need affecting women and children.

Nobody in government has seemed to GAF about this before now so if Priti Patel will stop the falsifying, at least in the criminal justice system, then that is a great start. Please could Sajid Javid also do it for health and the NHS? And the relevant ministers in Education, Business, DWP etc etc? Just would be great if the ONS would say something really robust about the need for this, but IIRC didn’t they have to have some threat of legal action about the 2021 census and making sure there was going to be accurate biological sex data collection? Apologies to them if I have misremembered that.

Wonderful wonderful post. Thank you

And obviously the brilliant research and lobbying from FPFW and others. Nic, pour yourself a well earned drink

Yes. Her FPFW speech at the 2021 Conservative party conference was so well put.

This was an interesting point she made:
"Lately the home secretary is calling for the police to take crimes like indecent exposure more seriously – while at the same time any man can be naked in the women’s changing rooms at my local gym, because he might be trans. And I can’t be sure I won’t be arrested for a hate crime if I question it."

Just would be great if the ONS would say something really robust about the need for this, but IIRC didn’t they have to have some threat of legal action about the 2021 census and making sure there was going to be accurate biological sex data collection?

Fair Play For Women took the ONS to the High Court and the ONS lost.

I haven't rtft so apologies if someone already asked, but how will police forces do this?

Thanks to the GRA - which prioritised the privacy of GRC holders - we're all meant to pretend we don't know what sex people are unless they tell us...

We all know that a person's sex isn't actually a secret, but if a man tells the police he's a woman, what will the police do? It won't be enough for them to simply disagree, 'because, well, we can see you're a man'.

They can ask for ID but it's now possible to have documents that lie. Will they insist on only using a birth certificate so that it's only GRC holders who are counted as women?

Anyway, good news in theory. Let's see it implemented properly and get men out of women's prisons, too.

Goodie, there are only 5,000 GRC holders, and several hoops need to be jumped to get one. TRAs have long complained that the process is too bureaucratic and expensive, though someone quite high profile and litigious was claiming that the process can be gamed, I assume via the use of sympathetic doctors. I have no issue with a small number of people with gender dysphoria of whom only a much smaller number will end up as offenders, who can be considered on a case by case basis, taking into account any danger they might pose to women.

Its self ID and the ability of male sex offenders to play the system that is very obviously wrong. And the impact on statistics.

@GoodieMoomin yeah this is what I was wondering..

Once someone has a GRC is there any record of their actual sex? Or is it deleted from history?

I haven't rtft so apologies if someone already asked, but how will police forces do this?

Thanks to the GRA - which prioritised the privacy of GRC holders - we're all meant to pretend we don't know what sex people are unless they tell us...

I don't know if there's a dna record for all criminals but I'd be surprised if there wasn't for violent and sexual abusers. So in most cases they would know, unambiguously.

@WarriorN

Fascinating about the paired disciples.

There's so much history air brushes out isn't there?

Such as the history of how trans came about. (See Helen Joyce, Trans.)

I am currently reading 12 Bytes by Jeanette Winterson - it's about AI but the chapter Gnostic Know How covers this idea, and how it was pushed out of religion in favour of a male only view.

I've just read the Home Office response to the perition to parliament linked uptrend. It's horrific! It says they can't record biological sex of criminals because this would involve physical examinations. WTAF? Did Stonewall write the response for the Home Office? They also use 'sex assigned at birth' and 'legal gender' is there such a thing as legal gender?