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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Girls night in Campaign targeted for not being inclusive

147 replies

Theeyeballsinthesky · 23/10/2021 06:54

A group of young women started a campaign to boycott night clubs in the wake of drinks being spiked & women being attacked

The outcome was of course predictable, because heaven forbid women have something of their own

I am apoplectic with rage on behalf of these young women. Only yesterday there were a ton of reports on young womens poor mental health. Do they really not join the fucking dots

twitter.com/findingdore/status/1451643838318190598?s=21

Girls night in Campaign targeted for not being inclusive
OP posts:
twangyhairband · 23/10/2021 11:27

it's only women and girls not allowed to have the tiniest sliver of anything for themselves

Exactly this, as it has been throughout history.

Clymene · 23/10/2021 11:28

@allmywhat

I might be missing something, but how is 'Girls' Night In' exclusive of transpeople? Would transwomen not simply count themselves amongst the 'girls'?

The urge to destroy/ take over women’s resources is primary; the justification is secondary. The only consistent part is the behaviour, the logic shifts and changes to justify the behaviour. There is no point in trying to unpick the logic. It’s a constellation of shifting excuses for vicious misogyny, not a logically coherent worldview.

Yes I agree with this. It's not about including the women who don't identify as women. It's about including everyone else. Look at their statement. It's the supermarket sweep of 'minority groups'. Women are not allowed to talk about things that only affect us.

It's like the whole Reclaim these Streets thing. Started off about women and quickly became a space where you couldn't talk about women unless you centred men

DreamingofGinoclock · 23/10/2021 11:33

@SusannaRowan

TBH I was never that sure about it in the first place. Is the best way to protest violence against women voluntarily removing women from life outside the home?

This is what I was thinking, very Talibanesqe. Women you are not safe here, stay at home where you are safe.

For the people criticising this campaign due to lack of intersectionality, I have no words (actually I have plenty, but best not).

Good point .... although I read the campaign in a different way ...not that women are staying in to avoid violence ...more they are taking their business away from the establishments that are not doing enough to protect them ....to make them realise that half (or thereabouts) business comes from females and that they need to do more to make them feel safe if you want their business!
MrsOvertonsWindow · 23/10/2021 11:33

Thank you FindTheTruth for sharing all those tweets. It's good to see women speaking out and reaching out to these young women, who I imagine must be terrified of the backlash.
Awful to see young women speaking out and then pilloried by the misogynists (and their enabling idiots) who walk among us. Sad Angry

Noshowlomo · 23/10/2021 11:40

FFS…. Sod the women… what about the men they say.

OhHolyJesus · 23/10/2021 11:42

If I was a nightclub or bar owner in Devon and Cornwall I would be opening my doors to female only customers for one night each month. I would also offer one night a month for lesbian and bisexual women only.

It would be ticketed and bouncers, female ones, would be able to turn away men at the door as it would be deemed a single sex space and therefore able to to apply single sex exemptions. At this point, if I had such a business and was able, I'd take the risk of the once it's left backlash so to be able to say women can have somewhere safe.

There are times when as a young woman I wanted to mix with, dance and flirt with men, but these days I can see why women would want to get away from them and enjoy a night out with mates without the risk of being injected, drugged and raped.

It shouldn't be women having to stay in (though I get the point) women should be able to enjoy themselves like men do and sometimes that maybe means the men should stay home.

It is just a dream but wouldn't it be great?

NotMeekNotObedient · 23/10/2021 11:47

Well they've stated in their post that they are anti-misogyny Hmm. In this new woke would it's Instagram posts that show how kind you are, actions smacions!

Hypocritical in the extreme!

BeBraverToday · 23/10/2021 11:48

Unbelievable. I am so, so angry at this.

EdgeOfTheSky · 23/10/2021 11:52

Abd where were the Transwomen protesting spiking, and setting up an initiative on behalf of all women?

‘Inclusive’ means taking on the fights that women fight!

FindTheTruth · 23/10/2021 11:57

This situation is EXACTLY why Raquel-Rosario-Sanchez's feminist student organisation is so important and why it's needed across ALL UK UNIVERSITES!!!!. It's despicable that female students are being silenced and coerced into stop describing what is happening. Raquel-Rosario-Sanchez in the case of Bristol Uni faced sanctions by it's own students union. As Baroness Nicholson said these girls are in an "environment". Raquel-Rosario-Sanchez needs more vegetables in her garden if you're interested.

her talk on woman's hour described what she faced.
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4379859-Womens-Hour-today-Raquel-Rosario-Sanchez-will-be-on

LonginesPrime · 23/10/2021 12:00

Women get attacked, then end up apologising for saying so.

There's never been a more important time for women to fight back - this definitely feels like the watershed moment that will determine whether future generations say "WTF was that? How did totalitarianism become the norm again?" or where conversations end up as "Birthing-parent, what's a woman?" "Shh, darling, don't let non-birthing-parent hear you using that word".

KimikosNightmare · 23/10/2021 12:01

I don't understand why the trans woman was complaining she was excluded.

Surely as a trans woman "Girls Night In" includes her anyway?

MarshmallowSwede · 23/10/2021 12:05

Intersectionality is not about including men or trans women. It’s about recognizing the unique issues of women of colour, disabled women and those issues that come from their unique experiences from racism and living in an world made for the able bodied.

Also people really need to stop including black women and other women of colour and disabled women in their examples with trans women. It’s extremely offensive and implies that black women and other women of colour or disabled women are not actually women. Trans women are not women.. there is no need to include actual women in a grouping as an example with tw. Basically stop grouping women in with tw as an example for why tw should be in women’s spaces. It’s a horrible way to make that argument.

I don’t care about trans women’s feelings. Men always have the audacity no matter what they wear. Women need to be vigilant and call out their bullshit when they see it. It used to be that tw just a wanted to be able to live their life and be left alone.. now demanding that they be centred in everything concerning women and erasing women is ridiculous.

Fuck being nice.. be nice for what? So men can continue to give you their ass to kiss and gaslight you into dick pandering so their feelings aren’t hurt? So men can continue to abuse women? So men can continue to sex traffick women and girls? So men can continue to pay you less? So men can continue to get light sentences for rape? So domestic abuse can continue without women having women only refuges?

Men are going around spiking women and women can’t even organise without some narcissistic man in a dress wanting to be the focus.

It’s the groveling apology for me. Dick pandering and weak spirited women are being raised and they are going to be eaten by the wolves! These young university women and young teen girls are the absolute dream for abusive, predatory men. They have absolutely no boundaries.. and we all know men love tk abuse women who have no bounds and can’t stand up for themselves.

KimikosNightmare · 23/10/2021 12:09

It’s the groveling apology for me

The apology to the trans woman makes no sense. The response should have been "but you are a girl! "

EsmaCannonball · 23/10/2021 12:16

A young woman I know is at university in one of the cities where this is happening. She and her female friends had a Girls Night In house-party instead of going out, but the sad thing is it was partly a protest and partly because they are genuinely and reasonably fearful.

This is why accurate language matters. This is why pronouns aren't just a matter of politeness. They are taking away our ability to describe reality. They are taking away our ability to describe who is doing what to whom. They are taking away our ability to protest against misogyny or gather together for collective safety. They are making it impossible to be a feminist; their true end goal.

flyingbuttress43 · 23/10/2021 12:17

I see everything I strived for as a second wave feminist being chucked away. It was tough being a second waver - the hatred was palpable, but we stood up for ourselves, fought back and, most important of all, didn't give a rats arse what people thought of us. If girls and women now are just going to roll over and play dead, then my generation fought for no reason.

If you won't fight for yourselves, no one is going to fight for you.

AlfonsoTheDinosaur · 23/10/2021 12:18

Old whine; new bottle.

CharlieParley · 23/10/2021 12:23

@ItsAllGoingToBeFine

FFS, though I did see this coming.

Maybe it will open some more eyes though? (Trying to be hopeful)

TBH I was never that sure about it in the first place. Is the best way to protest violence against women voluntarily removing women from life outside the home?

I agree, although I wouldn't have publicly opposed the group. Because that campaign shows initiative, it shows these young women aren't willing to just accept this situation and last but not least it may be an entry point into further women's rights campaigning for some of these young women.

Not all campaigns can drill down to root causes, identify workable, common sense solutions and present a convincing argument to the public. So all in all, Girls Night In wasn't doing too badly on those counts.

Of course, now they've come out of their struggle session* and engaged in this act of self-sabotage, I think it's inevitable that there will be much more criticism of the basic idea of this campaign and of their demands.

*Ultimately I think this is the greatest weakness of this kind of feminism. Constantly examining your own movement for micro-aggressions, examining your own privilege, sustained, intense self-flagellation, yes they create a movement where those who remain are pure and agree on everything, but it is much weaker for it and much less effective.

Helleofabore · 23/10/2021 12:24

Just reading more tweets.

It really does not occur to these people that they do not need to be included in this movement.

They are oblivious. Yet, oh so kind.

When everything moves so quickly online, we really need to be patient with people campaigning for #girlsnightin . I know there is criticism about how inclusive it is (or isn’t) as a title, but we can’t assume everyone running these pages is cis. I say this as a non-binary person.

It is completely fair to examine what is missing from this campaign, without making assumptions or ‘talking down’ to people who run/support the Insta pages. Scratch the surface and everyone is trying their best to be inclusive.

Do your best to boost the campaign (unless someone is an outright TERF🚫) and use the hashtag #bignightin if you want to. The ‘night in’ is for everyone.

ODFOD (my first one).

YouSetTheTone · 23/10/2021 12:24

This is what happens when the words women and girls were redefined to include men and boys. Women were left with NO WAY to advocate for themselves as a separate group. And in fact even though we did this we’re STILL not allowed to use the words women or girls. It’s terrifying.

The grovelling apology in the op is unbelievably depressing. These girls are allowed no boundaries, no safe spaces, no language in which to come up with strategies.

TheMarzipanDildo · 23/10/2021 12:37

It is ironic that they are (presumably) pointing out that trans men are at increased risk of this too. Could this be because they are biological women?

Actually, I wonder how trans men, who seem generally to be trying quite hard to escape any kind of victim status, feel about that?

Blackandwhitehorse · 23/10/2021 12:54

But why can’t everyone who identifies as something other than a girl just make their own movement or shut up. Pathetic.

Wish they’d stood up for themselves.

Also we’re constantly told you can still say women/girl- but clearly only in certain contexts. Fed up with this policing of language.

The statement seems like satire, just can’t believe what I’m reading.

allmywhat · 23/10/2021 13:01

Wish they’d stood up for themselves.

That would have guaranteed the failure of their campaign as they’d have been labelled TERFs, the campaign would then be a TERF campaign and it would get no traction. Even if the organisers are personally 100% immune to the gaslighting and 100% unafraid of personal consequences for themselves if they get labelled TERFs (and who wouldn’t be afraid? Especially at that age surrounded by woke students and with no career or power) they’d still have to capitulate to do what they’re trying to do.

EmbarrassingHadrosaurus · 23/10/2021 13:05

But why can’t everyone who identifies as something other than a girl just make their own movement or shut up. Pathetic.

It has to be for a reason beyond the lack of a straightforward name for the campaign.

I acknowledge the difficulty of forming a pithy way to describe:
NBs who present as female but don't acknowledge themselves as women are conflicted about the possibility of sustaining an assault that is so far media-reported as largely targeted at women.
NBs who were OFAB and are male presenting but still understand that they are at a notional risk of sustaining…
NBs who adopt a neutrois but still suspect that there is a notional risk of sustaining…

I'm so sorry these young women were oppressed into issuing these grovelling apologies. It's very Cialdini - social psychologists in years to come will have so much research on this if we're not all living in some authoritarian social, political, and academic system.

"An amazing example is the prison-camp program in Korean War where the Chinese used commitment and consistency pressures to gain compliance from prisoners. Although the American servicemen had been trained to give minimal details (name, rank and number), they gave away much more. How? The Chinese first asked prisoners to “make statements so mildly anti-American or pro-Communist as to seem inconsequential” such as “The United States is not perfect.” Then, once they’d complied with these minor requests, they were gradually pushed to make bigger and bigger declarations. Once they’d agreed that the US was not perfect, they would be pushed to expand on ways in which this was the case – not wanting to be inconsistent, they complied. Then, to remain consistent, they would agree to read their statements aloud in a discussion group, then maybe record it as an anti-American radio broadcast. Finding themselves a “collaborator”, without any physical coercion, the men changed their self-image and performed even more extensive acts of collaboration. The majority of prisoners collaborated at some time. Nobody wanted to appear inconsistent.

The critical act here, apparently, was that they wrote it down. They couldn’t deny the previous step, and pushed themselves into further acts of collaboration to prove their consistency (probably to themselves more than anyone else)."

scrumandkanban.co.uk/commitment-and-consistency/

My heart is aching for these young women.

NecessaryScene · 23/10/2021 13:16

Relevant excerpt from Lifton's Thought Reform and the Psychology of Totalism: A Study of Brainwashing in China I just saw on Twitter.

twitter.com/JonathanLiles1/status/1451686310394187780

Girls night in Campaign targeted for not being inclusive
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