Any other scientists feel like you are in an alternate reality?

[RockPaperScience]

I mean, seriously.

I’ve sequenced and karyotyped more X and Y chromosomes (and autosomes, I’m not picky) than I can count. How did we get to this sorry, ugly, baffling state of affairs of science and biology denial. I know we kind of know how, but I’ve had a glass of wine and WTAF is going on?

I blame the (science) teachers

no not really I blame Michael Gove
Or whoever is responsible for the mess that is secondary education

I'm a medical professional, not a scientist, but I'm with you. It's like they think that if they can get enough people calling a tail a leg that it will really be a leg.

RockPaperScience

Apparently though humans are clownfish, or something.

Well some people think so.

I know. When I read tweets like this with thousands of likes and hundreds of people in the comments vehemently agreeing that sex doesn't exist and I think about everything I've learnt from years of education and work and not only that, but my lived experience in a female-sexed body, I find it all so depressing. People are so easily led and reluctant to fact check. But it's us with '3rd grade biology' allegedly (um, that plus another 20 years)...

mobile.twitter.com/HamletHologram/status/1448295221545115653 oops, meant to post this

Not a scientist but in academia (and have all science A-levels so decent basic knowledge too).

I’m also massively disappointed I have to say, because at one point in 2020 when Covid became serious it looked like society was gaining a new respect for science, medicine and rationality. Suddenly being able to use a PCR machine, understand virology or epidemiological statistics or design a vaccine was in huge demand.

Well, from Trump to the antivaxxers to all the trans stuff, that didn’t last long, did it. I feel quite despairing about the bonkers let’s pretend fact-optional worldview many people seem to operate in these days, and I regularly think maybe I slipped into an alternate universe, or somehow everyone’s been brainwashed by Russian bots or forgotten most of the twentieth century existed…?

I felt the same watching newsnight last week. Eminent biologist says you can't change sex, tv presenter (No known biological qualifications ) says some people would disagree with you. WTAF.

manatsu, that tweet! FFS. No, mate, there aren’t.

It really didn’t last long. We’ve gone from public discussion about exponential transmission rates of viruses and the relative sensitivity and specificities of PCR vs lateral flow tests to SEX IS PRETEND clownfish nonsense.

I am close to a scientist whose PhD was entirely specific to the study of one sex who (from a let's be kind though I've never given it much thought and I'm not a bigot perspective) is not GC and buys into the whole gender thing. I don't talk to them about such things anymore.

It's essentially because many people got stuck believing science was simply X and Y, without acknowledging Darwinism and spectrum. They are being left behind. As what has happened in the past with flat earthers.

How did we get to this sorry, ugly, baffling state of affairs of science and biology denial.

I think the reason is that, ironically, science has enabled more detachment from the physical world.

Climate can be managed with air-conditioning or heating.
Childhood illnesses like polio have been eradicated in many countries.
Contraception means pregnancy can be postponed.

We are also less and less likely to be able to understand the workings of the machinery and scientific advances that enable our standard of living.

It's all magic.

without acknowledging Darwinism

Say what?

It's the mistaken idea that every opinion counts just as much, every opinion is just as worthy. The postmodern world where everything means what we want it to mean, and every fact is negotiable.

I'm not a scientist.

I saw a qualified biologist acquaintance insist that sex was a spectrum and that there are more than two sexes, recently. Middle aged woman. Mother. Reasonable and intelligent, as far as I can tell.

@MishyJDI

It's essentially because many people got stuck believing science was simply X and Y, without acknowledging Darwinism and spectrum. They are being left behind. As what has happened in the past with flat earthers.

Believing sex is a spectrum IS like believing the earth is flat.

And I am really sure that Darwin would be agreeing because… there is no third sex and a person who cosmetically modifies their body and artificially changes their hormones won’t actually change their sex.

Great that you point that out Mishy!

@MishyJDI

It's essentially because many people got stuck believing science was simply X and Y, without acknowledging Darwinism and spectrum. They are being left behind. As what has happened in the past with flat earthers.

I do not think these words mean what you think they mean

Its funny you mention the flat earth theory, @MishyJDI. The parallels between those who believe in the earth being flat and those who are followers of gender ideology are striking. Both movements have many of the same characteristics - lack of any evidence. Deliberate mis-understanding of basic scientific tenets. An inability by its' followers to use critical thinking skills. And an ability to conceed that they might be incorrect in the face of overwhelming evidence.

Finally someone will explain to me how "sex is a spectrum" works with evolution, yippee.
I was going to go to bed, I have a very early meeting tomorrow (the joys of colleagues in different time zones) but I'll stay up for that.

It’s not just science that’s the problem.

I have boxes full of old uni essays in the attic, very average degree from very average uni. But still a degree. I have essays in international relations, sociology and women’s studies models where I have conflated the meaning of prejudice, discrimination and oppression and been graded 2:1s or firsts.

And all it took for me to learn the difference was a couple of lines written on Miranda Yardley’s site I read over a decade ago.

Why would not only school but uni avoid the hard work involved in a few sentences of explaining the difference and why it matters?

If I was in the mood for tin foil fashion choices I’d think leaving generations ignorant must benefit somebody somewhere.

@manatsu

I know. When I read tweets like this with thousands of likes and hundreds of people in the comments vehemently agreeing that sex doesn't exist and I think about everything I've learnt from years of education and work and not only that, but my lived experience in a female-sexed body, I find it all so depressing. People are so easily led and reluctant to fact check. But it's us with '3rd grade biology' allegedly (um, that plus another 20 years)...

The thing that Popeye the sailor tran misses is WHY we talk about sex and the relative numbers of people whose sex is ambiguous.

"Most of us live our whole lives not knowing for sure if we have a full set of whatever "male" or "female" characteristics are"

No we really, really don't. If that were the case we wouldn't be here, because the human race would have died out long ago.

Please explain, @MishyJDI, how sex is a spectrum and how one can identify where along the spectrum any one individual sits? And indeed what the two ends of the spectrum are. And how someone can move along the spectrum during their life. And what Darwinism has to do with it. Should be pretty simple for someone like yourself who hasn't been left behind by the science. Educate us, if you would be so kind :-)

It's essentially because many people got stuck believing science was simply X and Y, without acknowledging Darwinism and spectrum.

Almost 8 billion people on the planet. Please could you explain which of them had parents whose sex was on a spectrum, and what those spectrum sexes are?

Help me please as I only have a lowly A-level in Biology, but I don’t get the “most of us don’t know if we’ve got a full set of male or female characteristics” bit from that tweet. Surely anyone who has managed to successfully reproduce knows? Would I have been able to get pregnant, gestate a baby and give birth without the characteristics they list?

I'm particularly interested in how these spectrum sexes have passed on their characteristics through evolution.