Need to vent work training- transgender talk

[AlwaysAWoman]

Today we had virtual training through work (Social Worker). We had some amazingly brilliant speakers, including a female doctor who raised very important issues relating to women and victim blame, mental health etc.

Following directly from this was a speaker on transgender issues. The speaker was listed as having female name and I was not surprised upon seeing them that they were, as they defined themselves, a 'transwoman'. (Although they did refer to themselves as woman as well).

This speaker consistently spoke about the rights of trans people, the importantance of being kind but it is protected by law etc. How NO ONE should feel scared to go in the toilet as trans people do.

Well, what the fuck about girls and womens rights to go to a toilet without a man in it? What about the girls and women who are survivors of rape and make violence and need female only spaces? Yet get called transphobic for calling this out?

What about OUR rights?

The speaker then went on to talk about how hormone intervention had been increased to 16 instead of 12 which was 'appalling' but 'luckily' it was back to being 12. Also little subtle sparky hints I imagine aimed at people who dislike the term 'cisgender'- 'it's Latin if you don't know'.

I can't really speak to my colleagues about this as have not yet identifies anyone like minded. I just feel angry.

I've changed my mind. I said before that I didn't care, but that I refused to let those women who did care be pushed out of the public provision for women.

Now I do care.

Hi @andrewdoyle_com . When you DM @KatyMontgomerie can you ask if you think it is appropriate that Katy is listening to surreptitious audio recordings of women using bathrooms taken by another male at the @ALLIANCELGB conference?

I thought that was against the law @metpoliceuk

twitter.com/TheIronLabia/status/1452173228139552773?t=VAV_qIOjBr8ZmcndczUtzQ&s=19

Last Thursday, the LGB Alliance held a conference, and two trans activists attended, as they had a right to do so. The male one seems to have boasted that they were wearing a hidden recording device on twitter and it turns out that they also used the women's toilets during the conference.

Absolutely no way am I okay with that.

WTAF!

Last Thursday, the LGB Alliance held a conference, and two trans activists attended… it turns out that they also used the women's toilets during the conference.

I'd need to know more about the level of evidence for that story. That is making some strong claims by juxtaposition and they need strong evidence. I'd doubt Andrew Doyle would appreciate that framing in the absence of evidence.

Well..... now..... Montgomerie is certainly someone to ask about female toilet discussions. Wasn't it just this year that they and at least one other prominent self declared influencer on twitter had a wonderful enlightening conversation mocking female toilet habits and the sounds they make while on the toilet.

The internet never forgets and those male transitioners involved took great delight in their mockery.

It would not surprise me in the least that a male activist recorded themselves in a female toilet at the LGB Alliance, but I do look forward to the proof being produced though.

It's not ironclad, but here's the thing. You want people to give you the benefit of the doubt that you switched off the recording function when you went into the toilet?

Then you have to act like the kind of community that respects boundaries. And I have realised just now that I do not have that trust. Especially after Helleofabore reminded me about the previous incident involving Montgomerie.

twitter.com/KatyMontgomerie/status/1451882332890312710?t=izkrwNh8G32dKX4HWrlWvg&s=19

twitter.com/robjessel/status/1451503986570301463?t=izkrwNh8G32dKX4HWrlWvg&s=19

Wow that was a very fun and informative discussion! I can't believe @jenivescomedian had the guts to go to the LGB Alliance Conference! It'll be interesting to see what the fallout of her recordings are...

What did you think?!

twitter.com/KatyMontgomerie/status/1451996911091728388t=UDTVCiud4z3UEgeEbdyqcA&s=19

The existence of recordings is firmly established

I don't question the existence of recordings of the main events. I can't comment on recordings of private conversations without alerting other participants to it nor the expectation of privacy for private conversations in a public space.

I question the evidence for the assertion, Katy is listening…taken by another male

I see nothing in that tweet that would validate those specific claims.

@PurgatoryOfPotholes I think that link’s been deleted. Screenshot it if you still have the tab open.

twitter.com/KatyMontgomerie/status/1451996911091728388t=UDTVCiud4z3UEgeEbdyqcA&s=19

You're being very reasonable and fair-minded, Embarrassing, and I admire that!

@bibliomania

I attended a work trans awareness session recently as well and was aghast. The speaker said outright that a lesbians who refused sex with TW were bigots. I said anyone can refuse sex with anyone for any reason without being called names. Apparently some attendees told the organiser that I can across as aggressive and unsympathetic to trans issues, and perpetuating negative stereotypes. I must have been sheltered till now but I'm genuinely gobsmacked at how one-sided things have become.

So telling that it’s always lesbians who won’t have sex with transwomen who are bigots. Never heterosexual males. Presumably they are allowed to pick and choose who they sleep with.

I'm with Embarassing here. Assuming specifically bathroom recordings exist is too far a reach from what was actually said.

And there's no need to make tenuous assertions when given enough time their own words will do the job for us.

All TRAs eventually say something that undermines their own credibility simply because the movement itself rests on flawed logic. Sooner or later every single one slips up. It's inevitable, because the things they believe don't add up to a coherent position.

We get this

Then we get a snp researcher retweet the violence to woman tweet

If they used the word woman instead of terf 🤷‍♀️

@littlbrowndog

Then we get a snp researcher retweet the violence to woman tweet

I nonetheless hope that many people see that and start to reflect on just how much cleaving to this ideology is costing them and the wider impacts on society, politics, healthcare, and the workplace. Especially if the SNP persists with its culture of impunity and takes no action.

@PurgatoryOfPotholes

You're being very reasonable and fair-minded, Embarrassing, and I admire that!

Thank you - did anybody attend the event stream? (I'm not clear on whether it's a private or public event.)

I posted much earlier un the thread in relation to training. I had two responses and thought I'd return when I had time to respond. Despite scrolling g through the thread 3 times I cannot see the responders comments (or a deletion notice)
Anyway from what I recall they had asked who delivered the Equality training. It was a while ago now but it was called Equality and Diversity training, so not an individual as per the query. No one challenged the (dodgy) biology though some are ex HCP. I did try to raise the concerns around womens. (After the mocking comment regarding women by the TW trainer "they think were going to rape them" accompanied by an eye roll)
I'd hoped I'd start some serious discussion, but no one else raised any concern or response.
Thanks for the responses to my post, do come back if you wish. @findthetruth I will contact womens groups about these training sessions.⁰
With regards to
The tide is turning.
Probably as a general rule as women age and derive greater life experience on issues that affect our sex only, some directly from men and the wider social and political environment impacts on them. They generally become more confident in advocating for themselves and other vulnerable women, children, disabled friends or family members. Essentially making them a threat to the patriarchy. Some women I have spoken to with regards to the issue of self ID are very quick to raise realistic concerns based on their awareness of what this would mean for them, based on their own life experience and those of other women. So whilst some younger women may lack the life experience, believe me they will get there.

as women age and derive greater life experience on issues that affect our sex only, some directly from men and the wider social and political environment impacts on them. They generally become more confident in advocating for themselves and other vulnerable women, children, disabled friends or family members. Essentially making them a threat to the patriarchy.

Ditto. So true. especially when we act.
good luck with sharing your experience with the women's groups Twinkly

With regards to
The tide is turning.
Probably as a general rule as women age and derive greater life experience on issues that affect our sex only, some directly from men and the wider social and political environment impacts on them. They generally become more confident in advocating for themselves and other vulnerable women, children, disabled friends or family members. Essentially making them a threat to the patriarchy. Some women I have spoken to with regards to the issue of self ID are very quick to raise realistic concerns based on their awareness of what this would mean for them, based on their own life experience and those of other women. So whilst some younger women may lack the life experience, believe me they will get there.

That all makes sense, but if we wait until those younger women have experienced sufficient sex-based oppression to speak up for themselves, they'll have to fight for women's sex-based rights completely from scratch just like the first time round as they won't have protections left in law.

It's important to fight back now to stop women's existing rights being eroded because public bodies and corporates are all applying Stonewall law instead of the Equality Act, and the more they do that, the harder it will be to come back from that.

Longinesprime couldn't agree more that's why they benefit from having the backing of older women. In this case my concern is that if womens rights were lost they would experience a far greater challenge in reinstating them due to the erosion of language that would prevent them being able to even identify their oppression. Scary times.

Find the truth yes I will share these concerns thanks for raising this. Sadly the attacks on women in the current climate (Sarah everard and the young womens drinks being spiked or being injected) and the push to consider misogny a hate crime. I hope will not be in vain and will push this oppressive narrative further into the mainstream media.

1. this is because many other professions turn trans people away due to them being trans so it is a secure thing they can have as a profession without the fear of being turned away or discriminated against
2. trans activists are needed! This is because of the sheer amount of transphobic hate crimes each year, including brutal murders. Without trans people speaking up on their issues, they would sink down and their pain would be brushed over, making things worse off and allowing gays crime rates to climb

Zombie thread. (It's considered bad form on MN to restart a thread that's more than a few weeks old or unless you're the OP with an update or whatever).

Not anti-trans, pro women

Exactly. And if you want to say that being pro-women is transphobic, then you are a misogynist.

Oh bugger! rookie error ...

Trans women are women hun get a grip