Need to vent work training- transgender talk

[AlwaysAWoman]

Today we had virtual training through work (Social Worker). We had some amazingly brilliant speakers, including a female doctor who raised very important issues relating to women and victim blame, mental health etc.

Following directly from this was a speaker on transgender issues. The speaker was listed as having female name and I was not surprised upon seeing them that they were, as they defined themselves, a 'transwoman'. (Although they did refer to themselves as woman as well).

This speaker consistently spoke about the rights of trans people, the importantance of being kind but it is protected by law etc. How NO ONE should feel scared to go in the toilet as trans people do.

Well, what the fuck about girls and womens rights to go to a toilet without a man in it? What about the girls and women who are survivors of rape and make violence and need female only spaces? Yet get called transphobic for calling this out?

What about OUR rights?

The speaker then went on to talk about how hormone intervention had been increased to 16 instead of 12 which was 'appalling' but 'luckily' it was back to being 12. Also little subtle sparky hints I imagine aimed at people who dislike the term 'cisgender'- 'it's Latin if you don't know'.

I can't really speak to my colleagues about this as have not yet identifies anyone like minded. I just feel angry.

It started turning the moment nodebate was pushed back.

It will be a long time for the turn to fully happen, but that does allow many, many discussions. And a stronger position to be reached in the long run. Where the conflicts between women’s rights and trans rights have been minimised and both groups have the protections they need. It may not have the full acceptance that trans people want, but we have also seen there is a huge range of points of view about that anyway amongst trans people.

Or can you simply not see any conflicts bilinda. Not in sports, not in prisons, not in any area?

It really, REALLY is. The general public are starting to ask questions, Stonewall is falling and the Government is starting to backtrack. Rational thought and reality is starting to return.

It's glorious, glorious sunlight.

I most certainly think that the events of this past year puts paid to the ‘look at who your allies are’ weak arsed argument.

Repent Motherfucker!!

PurgatoryOfPotholes

Thanks this is absolutely brilliant

janeclarejones.com/2018/11/13/the-annals-of-the-terf-wars/

I attended a work trans awareness session recently as well and was aghast. The speaker said outright that a lesbians who refused sex with TW were bigots. I said anyone can refuse sex with anyone for any reason without being called names. Apparently some attendees told the organiser that I can across as aggressive and unsympathetic to trans issues, and perpetuating negative stereotypes. I must have been sheltered till now but I'm genuinely gobsmacked at how one-sided things have become.

Im horrified.

It's also the case in education, more worryingly some teacher training institutions.

But the tide is turning.''

No it isn't.

I must admit I had no idea of the extent of this until recently, although I can now see it's been going on for ages. Feels like I'm coming in at the end after all the hard work has been done (shameful I know).

Safeguarding has gone wrong and there's a lot of people working hard to put this right. The tide seems to be turning. Don't worry bilinda, I don't think there's any reason for you to feel negative. Good changes are happening every day to protect women and children and the loopholes will be tightened up.

@BilindaB

''But the tide is turning.''

No it isn't.

Is that the sum total of your argument?

I just don't understand how anyone can hold the opinion that 'lesbians who refused sex with TW were bigots' and not know, somehow, somewhere deep down that it's rapey and coercive and really fucking wrong.

Regardless of views or discussions about sex and gender, telling someone that they have to have sex with someone they don't want to, is utterly abhorrent.

@BloodinGutters
“Surely all police forces should be accurately recording the sex of suspects for h & s reasons also?

If a suspect is in custody and something goes wrong and they need to call an ambulance they need to tell paramedics the persons sex otherwise risk their life. They don’t even need to claim it’s for accurate records, they can say it’s for the prisoners benefit.”

Police forces are not recording the sex of the person in custody at all in many cases - only their ‘self-identified’ gender identity. They have specifically responded to queries about this (when asked about male crimes being recorded as female crimes and the skewing of any data due to this) by detailing that it wouldn’t be possible or appropriate to record sex or sex AND gender.

Regarding informing medical professionals of the natal sex of their patient - not allowed, unable to as they only record ‘gender identity’. Trans people have developed serious complications and even died as they have refused to divulge their natal sex in a timely manner whilst undergoing emergency diagnostics……

They are who they say they are, according to the police, amnesty, etc.

I must admit I had no idea of the extent of this until recently, although I can now see it's been going on for ages. Feels like I'm coming in at the end after all the hard work has been done (shameful I know)

@Zebradanio me too

@WarriorN

Im horrified.

It's also the case in education, more worryingly some teacher training institutions.

Can I ask- is there a way to find out if teaching training is promoting gender ideology.

One of the secondary schools we are considering has a teaching school on site. It’s by far the best school, has clearly followed the d of e guidance to the letter and is much more transparent than many schools when we were enquiring about this. Has clearly followed building regulation laws on toilets also. I very much feel like there must be gc teachers in the slt/board of governors/mat. But it is a member of sw diversity champions scheme, which I’ve told them we would be addressing concerns about, and following up formally if necessary.

However, your post has made me wonder if the new sw dc membership might come from a push towards gender ideology from the teaching school, or that it might influence other things I haven’t considered yet. So is there a way to find out?

Ty

[quote DefineHappy]@BloodinGutters
“Surely all police forces should be accurately recording the sex of suspects for h & s reasons also?

If a suspect is in custody and something goes wrong and they need to call an ambulance they need to tell paramedics the persons sex otherwise risk their life. They don’t even need to claim it’s for accurate records, they can say it’s for the prisoners benefit.”

Police forces are not recording the sex of the person in custody at all in many cases - only their ‘self-identified’ gender identity. They have specifically responded to queries about this (when asked about male crimes being recorded as female crimes and the skewing of any data due to this) by detailing that it wouldn’t be possible or appropriate to record sex or sex AND gender.

Regarding informing medical professionals of the natal sex of their patient - not allowed, unable to as they only record ‘gender identity’. Trans people have developed serious complications and even died as they have refused to divulge their natal sex in a timely manner whilst undergoing emergency diagnostics……

They are who they say they are, according to the police, amnesty, etc.[/quote]
I’m aware police do this and of the response to the petition on this.

What I was meaning was that surely they could avoid the gender debate and just point out it’s negligent to their duty of care towards the suspect in custody to not have an accurate record of the persons sex in the event of a hc emergency. It avoids the whole debate but still ensures there’s an accurate record.

Police record self declared ethnicity but they also record observed ethnicity. Thus prevents someone describing themselves as black/white/Asian etc to prevent themselves showing up in searches of the system.

The observed ethnicity is used when searching for suspects.

Surely they could similarly record self declared gender and observed sex being recorded if there is a noted difference between presentation and self declared gender.

This should move to confirmed sex if someone is arrested, as at that point it is relevant for who they may be incarcerated with.

They are who they say they are, according to the police, amnesty, etc.
I wonder if that includes when a decision on whether to charge is made.

"I'm not a thief"
"Alright then, whatever you say..."

Police record self declared ethnicity but they also record observed ethnicity. Thus prevents someone describing themselves as black/white/Asian etc to prevent themselves showing up in searches of the system.

Seems reasonable.

Despite Assigned being the alleged basis of birth certificates, it is observation. I think we can record the sex based on the plausible observation skills of the personnel involved without anything invasive.

Training was held

Told by TW that she "was more female than any woman in the room" (seriously? If your pumped full of female hormones then that may be possible)

@twinklystar23 did any one disagree? how many people were being trained?

@Helleofabore

I most certainly think that the events of this past year puts paid to the ‘look at who your allies are’ weak arsed argument.

Repent Motherfucker!!

DdraigGoch

Its another example of the level of debate and evidence from Anti women posters

Im not great at providing evidence and debate but at least i have the awareness that i don’t have those skills

Im happy to read just about everything said but its very onesided…and that, in no way shape or form, is the fault of those providing the information

Its quite obviously the fault of those NOT providing the information

Oops

Didnt mean to quote helleofabore

Though I don’t disagree 😀

@FindTheTruth

Training was held

Told by TW that she "was more female than any woman in the room" (seriously? If your pumped full of female hormones then that may be possible)

@twinklystar23 did any one disagree? how many people were being trained?

Was this a training session for staff or has somebody managed to monetise having a personal validation session as a business - and one in which they can effectively compel people not to disrupt their immersive fiction?

@bibliomania

I attended a work trans awareness session recently as well and was aghast. The speaker said outright that a lesbians who refused sex with TW were bigots. I said anyone can refuse sex with anyone for any reason without being called names. Apparently some attendees told the organiser that I can across as aggressive and unsympathetic to trans issues, and perpetuating negative stereotypes. I must have been sheltered till now but I'm genuinely gobsmacked at how one-sided things have become.

@bibliomania if you feel able to please contact women's groups in confidence with your testimony of what was said at this 'awareness session'. Discrimination based on sexual orientation goes against Equality Act 2010 and incidents like these need to be recorded.

What I was meaning was that surely they could avoid the gender debate and just point out it’s negligent to their duty of care towards the suspect in custody to not have an accurate record of the persons sex in the event of a hc emergency. It avoids the whole debate but still ensures there’s an accurate record.

Yes, they could, but the problem is that they've been told by Stonewall, the self-styled gender/sex experts (who speak on sex but not for women...) that it would be discriminatory and unreasonable to record sex.

You can see Stonewall’s language and spurious arguments coming through in the government's official response to that survey - a government official is saying "well, there's actually no 100% reliable way of determining someone's biological sex, and you can't expect police officers to go around fondling people's genitals as that would be absurd and a violation of the person's dignity" - it's madness.

I'm actually going to repost the petition on a separate thread as the madness of the government adopting Stonewall’s crazy ideology here needs much more light as it makes the government look ridiculous.

I've seen it pointed out that 'cis' is used incorrectly.

A text that has been translated doesn't have a 'cis' version. An item that has been transferred didn't have a cisferred state beforehand. There is no cisport equivalent of transport.

All this 'I don't mind...', 'I don't care...' It's so self-centred and selfish. It's not all about you. It's about all those other women and girls who have had different life experiences from yours and they do mind, they do care and that matters.

@KateF

All this 'I don't mind...', 'I don't care...' It's so self-centred and selfish. It's not all about you. It's about all those other women and girls who have had different life experiences from yours and they do mind, they do care and that matters.

Yeah "I don't mind" is what privileged people say, yet it' the vulnerable and least able to complain who are affected the most.