Need to vent work training- transgender talk

[AlwaysAWoman]

Today we had virtual training through work (Social Worker). We had some amazingly brilliant speakers, including a female doctor who raised very important issues relating to women and victim blame, mental health etc.

Following directly from this was a speaker on transgender issues. The speaker was listed as having female name and I was not surprised upon seeing them that they were, as they defined themselves, a 'transwoman'. (Although they did refer to themselves as woman as well).

This speaker consistently spoke about the rights of trans people, the importantance of being kind but it is protected by law etc. How NO ONE should feel scared to go in the toilet as trans people do.

Well, what the fuck about girls and womens rights to go to a toilet without a man in it? What about the girls and women who are survivors of rape and make violence and need female only spaces? Yet get called transphobic for calling this out?

What about OUR rights?

The speaker then went on to talk about how hormone intervention had been increased to 16 instead of 12 which was 'appalling' but 'luckily' it was back to being 12. Also little subtle sparky hints I imagine aimed at people who dislike the term 'cisgender'- 'it's Latin if you don't know'.

I can't really speak to my colleagues about this as have not yet identifies anyone like minded. I just feel angry.

[quote Stellaris22]@FitAt50 if stay away from the feminism boards sadly. You’ll soon find yourself being convinced that pro women isn’t anti trans and that these views are acceptable rather than clearly being intolerant.

Don’t bother slating this reply, I won’t be reading the thread![/quote]
This is exactly what I mean.

No response to women's concerns - just being told that even raising them is hateful and wrong to the point where the very people who's job it is to facilitate raising our issues and deal with them now think that they must be hateful and wrong.... Without really contemplating why....

I am quite happy to listen to the experiences and opinion of others, and examine my own pre conceived ideas, with a view to all moving forward together - or at least I was. I have been ridiculed, called a bigot, de-friended and blocked too many times now....

Stellaris22 - if you have evidence, recognise and engage with problems, communicate respectfully and try to suggest solutions, we would probably all be happily existing together by now....

[quote Stellaris22]@FitAt50 if stay away from the feminism boards sadly. You’ll soon find yourself being convinced that pro women isn’t anti trans and that these views are acceptable rather than clearly being intolerant.

Don’t bother slating this reply, I won’t be reading the thread![/quote]
Shake that tambourine

@FitAt50

I have only been on mumsnet about 6 months, but I becoming aware that there seems to be an increasing amount of anti trans posts. This is very sad and I don't understand why?

What you’re actually noticing are pro women posts. Why shouldn’t women retain the rights women fought so hard to get?

They failed properly to investigate M's assertions, in part I suspect, because they did not wish to appear to be challenging an emerging orthodoxy in such a high profile issue.

I've just copied this paragraph from the court case linked above. It illustrates precisely the issue.

[quote Stellaris22]@FitAt50 if stay away from the feminism boards sadly. You’ll soon find yourself being convinced that pro women isn’t anti trans and that these views are acceptable rather than clearly being intolerant.

Don’t bother slating this reply, I won’t be reading the thread![/quote]
So if Pro women = anti trans, let's expand the logic to its fullest conclusion, which is pro trans = anti women

So good of you to finally acknowledge this

Shake that tambourine is my new favourite reply.

if stay away from the feminism boards sadly. You’ll soon find yourself being convinced that pro women isn’t anti trans and that these views are acceptable rather than clearly being intolerant

A) why are you on the feminism boards if you’re so worried that there’s a danger of anyone being radicalised into the outrageous notion that women are entitled to sex based rights? Or are you just patrolling them to save curious souls from eternal damnation?
2) If you believe that being pro woman IS anti trans, aren’t you acknowledging that being pro trans is anti woman? I mean, I’m no Paxman, but that’s what it sounds like to me.

You’ll soon find yourself being convinced that pro women isn’t anti trans and that these views are acceptable

From a pro trans poster, thought it worth highlighting again.

[quote MrsOvertonsWindow]Sympathies OP. I wonder what their qualifications in social work are? Or safeguarding? Or child development? Or anything apart from themselves?

It's a massive earner for a number of people who go and give talks essentially about themselves, their preferred ideology and how they wish society to involve children in their ideology.

But it's not professional training - in fact it appears to be professionally dangerous. Mr Justice Hayden was not impressed when trans ideology took precedence over social worker's professional knowledge and expertise and a child was emotionally abused as a result. His judgement is well worth reading:

www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/Fam/2016/2430.html[/quote]
Really interesting case MrsOverton, thanks for sharing. Reading it I did wonder whether the Courts would act in the same way today. That was 2016 and far too few people questioned a 4-year old being manipulated. Today would anyone?

loneLonely "they are just a trans talking head"

That is very astute. I'm thinking about all the trans people I know - and they ALL work in something to do with trans issues.

They are professional trans people.

Don’t bother slating this reply, I won’t be reading the thread!

You won't read what we say then, but my comments are not always based on whether I think the person will read or grasp them.

OP - have a look at EBWSA - I believe it is your area.

@FitAt50

I have only been on mumsnet about 6 months, but I becoming aware that there seems to be an increasing amount of anti trans posts. This is very sad and I don't understand why?

It’s always very sad to me when posters think a biological male should be able to identify himself into women’s rugby despite the evidence showing that female players are at least 30% more likely to suffer injury as a result

[quote MrsOvertonsWindow]Sympathies OP. I wonder what their qualifications in social work are? Or safeguarding? Or child development? Or anything apart from themselves?

It's a massive earner for a number of people who go and give talks essentially about themselves, their preferred ideology and how they wish society to involve children in their ideology.

But it's not professional training - in fact it appears to be professionally dangerous. Mr Justice Hayden was not impressed when trans ideology took precedence over social worker's professional knowledge and expertise and a child was emotionally abused as a result. His judgement is well worth reading:

www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/Fam/2016/2430.html[/quote]
Thanks for posting the link to that judgment. Absolutely fascinating.

The only reason people plop into a thread, throw out the transphobe accusation, then say not to reply is that they don't have an argument other than insults

Absolutely

fitat50 have a look at some threads, read some of the linked articles from posters whether they are pro trans or pro women…dont take the advice to NOT educate yourself about these matters from a random who freely admits that they aren’t prepared to listen to anyone

It doesnt matter whether at the end of your research if you agree with the majority of the posters on this board or with posters like ‘I won’t be reading the thread’ (completely forgotten their name and can’t be arsed to check)

@MoltenLasagne

Shake that tambourine is my new favourite reply.

Agreed 😀

Thank you everyone, going to have a good look at links posted.

I feel better being able to express my feelings in a place where I (mostly ) won't be perceived as transphobic

And yes shake that tambourine is possibly the best thing to come out of this thread. Will be using that one in future

Oh look another drive-by scolding.
Seriously, what's the point in dropping in a comment and then flouncing off before you can even look at any reasoned arguments. Are you scared that logic and common sense might infiltrate your mind?

I've never seen an anti trans post on this forum. If you ever do you should report it because that is something Mumsnet don't tolerate.
Posts which concern the rights of women and girls however, are frequent because it's such a huge issue. No post I've ever read has been 'anti' trans. You are confused. Pro women does not mean anti trans. Everyone on this thread would be on board with third spaces for trans people, and non exclusionary language if it doesn't eradicate 'women' and 'girls' entirely as some organisations and companies seem to want to do to appease the tiny minority at the expense of the vast majority who are happy to be described as women, girls and mothers.
Most of us just don't believe that men can ever be a subset of women. And we are not prepared to 'be nice' and be complicit in our own erasure.
That is not anti trans. It's looking out for my two daughters who should be able to grow up in a world where they are able to have privacy, dignity, freedom, choice, and safe spaces without the male gaze. You know, things that were fought for - and are now under threat.
Trans people can campaign for their own spaces and rights the same way others have had to, its not up to the female estate to absorb them.

Thanks for that link MrsOvertonsWindow

I consider that she has learnt that by creating 'confusion'........amongst the professionals, she generates a situation in which her own distorted beliefs gain greater traction and are able to prevail with less effective challenge.

Ah that old chesnut trick.

Alwaysawoman interesting comments and training reflected similar to mine

Training was held by 5 people 4 of which were all born with white male privilege 1 who was a black man. The additional person was a TM. (Spot the missing representation, says it all??)

Discussed access to female toilets by trans woman who stated "they (biological females) think well rape them" accompanied by an eye roll.

Told sex was a spectrum with representations of other creatures like sea horses that are of both sexes. That many young people are not identifying with the body they were born into.

Told by TW that she "was more female than any woman in the room" (seriously? If your pumped full of female hormones then that may be possible)

The best bit, to lighten all this was that mumsnet was a nest of vipers!! (By TW)

On the self ID question, tried to tentatively raise concern of Muslim women who could be denied further restrictions to public life if it was perceived ( had to be careful with wording) that biological males could access current female only spaces or she could not request a female born person to perform a medical procedure. This was met with some consideration in that "we dont want to mess this up for everyone"

''You don’t understand why women don’t want to use toilets, changing rooms, dormitories and hospital wards that people with penises also use?''

Some women. I'm an adult human female and think trans women should use the facilities that match their gender. Because I on't consider them threat. And they already do, you realise? Always have.

toilets and changing rooms, that is.

Why not dormitories and hospital wards belinda ?

@BilindaB

''You don’t understand why women don’t want to use toilets, changing rooms, dormitories and hospital wards that people with penises also use?''

Some women. I'm an adult human female and think trans women should use the facilities that match their gender. Because I on't consider them threat. And they already do, you realise? Always have.

Do you consider any males a threat?

Or is just the transgender males that are harmless?