Really fucking annoyed by another entitled man

[Justreallyannoyed]

I’m a midwife. I answered the phone in a busy clinic today to an irate man. Apparently he’s applied online to volunteer in the maternity department and NOT HEARD ANYTHING. It’s NOT GOOD ENOUGH. He’s phoned THREE TIMES and no one is getting back to him. I explained that we don’t deal with volunteers ourselves and all the placements are dealt with by the volunteer office. This was OUTRAGEOUS apparently and he’s been passed FROM PILLAR TO POST and he just wants to know when he can come in to the Maternity Department and start volunteering!

I gave him the number of the volunteer office but I stupidly didn’t get his name. He was horrible and rude and our current volunteering vacancies are on the postnatal ward. What kind of man muscles his way in to the postnatal ward???? Especially when he has no expertise or experience to offer at all. The hall of him being furious because we aren’t being quick enough at facilitating his unfettered access to postnatal women and babies…..

Anyway I actually got a horrible creeped out feeling from him so I am going to call the volunteer office tomorrow and discuss. But just another entitled man throwing his weight around. Yuck.

Why’s he so desperate to be around vulnerable women?
This post has given me pure anxiety. I think I’m going to call my midwife tomorrow and ask if there are any male volunteers on my chosen hospitals postnatal ward. If there are then I don’t want to be there anymore.

Today 20:36 Justreallyannoyed

I’m not sure if they are everywhere nationwide. They also generally do just a couple of hours a week.”

Do expectant mums know? Is their permission sought before these volunteers are given access to them?

Hope so. At the most intimate, exposed times of my life, it would have been a firm “no” from me.

I used to volunteer on the postnatal ward. I ran a breastfeeding drop in at a local children and family centre and also helped out on the ward. I had to be dbs checked and do all the volunteer training at the hospital before I could start even though I was trained at the hospital to do the breastfeeding support.

He sounds awful. Can you refuse to let him volunteer?

I will definitely call them tomorrow. I’m so annoyed I didn’t get his name but he has a very identifiable overseas accent and I can’t think there are many men volunteering for maternity. I’m not sure if there will be much they can do “random midwife found you rude and creepy” but I can hopefully have a quiet word.

I don't even like dad's being on postnatal wards. I don't need some random bloke shoving a Macdonald's in his face and staring at me over his phone (which is playing noisy irritating game music) while I'm trying to latch my baby for the first time whilst bleeding excessively all over my bed.

Do volunteers go through any training or have dos and don'ts they can provide? I mean if I was a volunteer I am a busy body and couldn't help myself helping new mums with breastfeeding etc as I know how hard it can be. Is that allowed? I certainly wouldn't want angry phone man doing so though.

The volunteers are there to do basic duties like answering the door, phone, top up water jugs, hand out meals. All hospitals I've been in have had volunteers with their own uniforms. Dbs checks done. Basic training for the role given (so, fire safety, health and safety, safeguarding etc). They have in my experience been either older women who enjoy giving up 2 hours a week to help, or women who are considering midwifery, but would like some experience of what the environment is like, and what to expect.
There is really no alarm to be had by someone volunteering. It is a common thing in hospitals. We only had about 4 hours a week with a volunteer, so most people wouldn't come across them anyway.

As for this man... words do not express the horror at this scenario! Please tell me you did a datix/incident form? If not, do one on your next shift. It needs investigating. Wholly inappropriate.

Probably needs to volunteer with young children as wants to adopt a baby (with partner usually) and has to show they've got experience with young children including babies. Maybe never really been near a baby. They ask all these things. Ive had a couple i barely know ask if they can say they know me and my children for their forms. Then they didnt as they needed younger kids! At Scouts we get people coming forward like this. Not interested in long term. This might describe the desperation!

The trust should be able to investigate and if appropriate trace the phone number (if they feel the need to involve police - it is really concerning, and if I was them, I would be!).

I'm a bit taken aback just by the volunteers as well

Perhaps I've seen them and not realised

I suppose he should get a call back to stop him calling again but I'm surprised it happens and why are men allowed?

As you work for a statutory body and this volunteer role involves access to children (well, infants) Safer Recruitment practice should apply here. This means that the people responsible for (potentially) recruiting this person should take any information relating to his suitability very seriously.

Please, please do follow this up with the volunteer team and stress that due to this person's conduct you have concerns relating to his suitability for the role.

I’m not massively up on it all as the volunteers just sort of appear and I haven’t really been involved with sorting out things for them to do. There’s a particular midwife who liaises with the volunteer office so I will also talk to her. I have just been reading on our website and apparently there is an assessment day, induction day, training and DBS check. He was saying he hasn’t heard back from the application so I’m hoping he hasn’t got anywhere through the process.

I think it's right to flag it to the volunteer office, OP, but I'd also flag it your manager on the maternity ward too, in case he tries to get in there another way.

Obviously it will be the manager's call as to whether to report if elsewhere too (security, etc), but it's very concerning that he's so desperate to get into where the babies are specifically.

DBS checks will obviously only show whether he's been caught before, but this kind of behaviour flags a huge risk where a crime might be able to be prevented, so defs share what happened as widely as possible within your department.

For example

www.adoptionukforum.org/topic/18f03541-a5c1-4e03-ac63-a1f7674c17fa

Surely this is two separate issues. First of all, why shouldn't men be interested in babies? And so why not volunteer in the maternity unit? We don't stop men working as obstetricians or gynaecologists or midwives. Obviously he wouldn't be involved in personal care or anything. They just hand out tea and biscuits, usually during visiting times in the afternoon. Often they might gave a chat with someone if they don't have any visitors.
Secondly, this man might have qualifications in midwifery, so he might be useful to the unit. However, I guess no one wants to work with people with a rude attitude so it would be good for the volunteer office to know about his behaviour. If he's mouthing off like that, it's not conducive to recovery or fair for any patient to have to listen to. In addition, he might be totally unsuitable because If he thinks delay being dealt with is unacceptable, he hasn't had much dealings with the NHS.
We have volunteers at our hospital and they are really a fantastic addition.

Personally I think any random man who wants to invite themselves (aka demand entry) into spaces where women are obviously vulnerable typifies the male who absolutely shouldn't be there.

The very fact they can't comprehend (or care) that the presence of a man can be very triggering/unnerving or simply unwelcome is justification in and of itself that they lack the required empathy and emotional intelligence to gain access to such environments.

@ThisMustBeMyDream

The trust should be able to investigate and if appropriate trace the phone number (if they feel the need to involve police - it is really concerning, and if I was them, I would be!).

In my trust if the police were involved over people moaning because they'd not had queries followed up in a timely manner, we'd need a whole second police force!

Absolutely @BreadInCaptivity

Unfortunately where I work the ethos (from senior team anyway) will be very “oh how WONDERFUL a lovely man wants to volunteer, he must be a real saint, how quickly can we get him in here, inclusive and lovely blah blah blah”.

But I will definitely speak to volunteer team tomorrow

Lots of volunteer roles in every hospital. Typically in the giving directions/being nice to people/wielding the tea trolley type roles.

Yes, they're DBS checked and have appropriate training.

Some are directly through the hospital, and some via organisations like the WRVS.

With my paranoid head on, could this be man with an ex who is due to give birth soon and who doesn't want him anywhere near her? Definitely flag.

This cuts into the women’s safe spaces argument. No privacy, dignity or sisterhood will be allowed for women anymore. This guys feelings are now more important than those of all the new mothers.

@madisonbridges

Surely this is two separate issues. First of all, why shouldn't men be interested in babies? And so why not volunteer in the maternity unit? We don't stop men working as obstetricians or gynaecologists or midwives. Obviously he wouldn't be involved in personal care or anything. They just hand out tea and biscuits, usually during visiting times in the afternoon. Often they might gave a chat with someone if they don't have any visitors. Secondly, this man might have qualifications in midwifery, so he might be useful to the unit. However, I guess no one wants to work with people with a rude attitude so it would be good for the volunteer office to know about his behaviour. If he's mouthing off like that, it's not conducive to recovery or fair for any patient to have to listen to. In addition, he might be totally unsuitable because If he thinks delay being dealt with is unacceptable, he hasn't had much dealings with the NHS. We have volunteers at our hospital and they are really a fantastic addition.

I think you've massively missed the point.

It's fine for men to be interested in babies but volunteering in a maternity unit is fundamentally about supporting women who are vulnerable after giving birth.

That's a very different premise.

Women can have a variety of post birth issues that involve intrusive physical checks usually with modesty protected by a simple curtain.

Even with a "perfect birth" they'll be establishing feeding, bleeding and likely physically exhausted.

The last thing most women wants is to be interrupted even by a well meaning male stranger when their boobs or out or bloody sheets/gowns being changed.

The situation is also a far cry from qualified medical male HCP's being on a maternity wards who've undergone extensive training and have a very legitimate reason to be there other than their own gratification.

@BreadInCaptivity

Personally I think any random man who wants to invite themselves (aka demand entry) into spaces where women are obviously vulnerable typifies the male who absolutely shouldn't be there.

The very fact they can't comprehend (or care) that the presence of a man can be very triggering/unnerving or simply unwelcome is justification in and of itself that they lack the required empathy and emotional intelligence to gain access to such environments.

Do you think the same about the male nurses, doctors, porters and cleaners who are also frequently present on maternity wards?

It isn't about his rudness or complaint. It's about a male acting strangely and inappropriately, trying to access women and babies. He may be doing this at multiple units. It's a safeguarding risk. Surprised you can't see the bigger picture if you work in a hospital. Professional curiosity needs engaging.

Surely this is two separate issues. First of all, why shouldn't men be interested in babies? And so why not volunteer in the maternity unit?

I don't think there's anything wrong with men volunteering to work with babies.

I would be just as worried (perhaps moreso) if a woman begged in the same way and was calling up being agressuve and clearly desperate to get on the maternity ward now. If she were that impatient and pressing so desperately on the timing, I'd wonder if she were faking a pregnancy and planning an abduction, to be honest.

It's the aggression, the fact they're not going through the proper channels and the fact it's clearly about more than simply helping others if they're that pushy and erratic. There's clearly some reason they have that is more than simply helping the hospital if they're not prepared to wait until the hospital needs them.

They seem prepared to do whatever it takes, however inappropriate, to get to those babies, and that's what's worrying.

It's not the mentality of people who volunteer to help others - it comes off as far too self-centred to be a genuine volunteer. And in any case, is not the kind of aggressive, inappropriate behaviour vulnerable postnatal women need to be around.