Maya back in court tomorrow (20th Oct)

[ItsAllGoingToBeFine]

hiyamaya.net/2021/10/19/gendered-intelligence-trains-judges-in-secret-i-am-going-to-court-to-try-to-break-the-secrecy/

Training for judges is carried out by the Judicial College, this training is said to be “by judges, for judges”. But in 2018 Judge Sian Davies proudly revealed in an in-house magazine for judges, that the Employment Tribunal and the Immigration Tribunal judges had received training from Gendered Intelligence.

There is no information on this training in the Judicial College’s published Review of Activities.

In March 2020 I submitted a Freedom of Information request asking dates and details of the training including:

– Cost of the training
– Contract/agreement/TORs for commissioning the training
– Copies of any presentation material and/or hand outs used
– Which judges attended the training^

The Ministry of Justice refused the request, saying that it didn’t hold the information. I asked for a review by the Judicial College. The Judicial College said it only holds information on behalf of the judiciary, and in any case is not covered by FOI and is therefore exempt from disclosure. I complained to the Information Commissioner who also agreed that the public had no right to have any information on Gendered Intelligence’s training of judges (or indeed any other lobby group training judges in secret).

Tomorrow the case goes to tribunal. I am represented in this case by barrister Naomi Cunningham.

Wow. I completely missed this. Maya, if you're reading, you are one hell of a woman. My respect for you knows no bounds.

I, too, had no idea she had another case coming up. What a formidable woman!!

What an amazing women.

Good luck!

I complained to the Information Commissioner who also agreed that the public had no right to have any information on Gendered Intelligence’s training of judges (or indeed any other lobby group training judges in secret).

That is shocking! What's the justification for secrecy in training judges?

I don't want to say 'Good luck' for tomorrow, because it should not be dependent upon luck. I hope it goes well, and common sense prevails.

How does your garden grow?

We need a good outcome from this. Either way, the publicity will be invaluable as I doubt this lack of transparency is well understood by the general public. It's well-timed being so soon after the Nolan podcast series.

I thought I was shock proof by now, but every day comes another piece of news that beggar's belief. Thank God for Maya!

wow

i'll be following this with interest

Yes, shocking. Again.

Was in court last week and I asked a witness what sex the person seen was - the judge asked if I meant gender. I had to ask for the jury to go out. I cobbled together an argument about sex still being a valid term and descriptor and that gender may be private or literally irrelevant. Nothing in case to suggest there was any gender ‘issue’ or self identification at all. The person being described was a man with a mans name and identified by the police as a man and by the alleged victim as a man with male genitalia. I wonder if this was a result of the training - have friends who are judges and will see what I can find out within the profession.

@HeronLanyon I am assuming that you are a lawyer so I've got a quick question that I've been thinking about for a while now and wondered if you could answer it.
If a person is sexually assaulted by a biological male who self IDs as a woman and doesn't have a grc so legally still male given that the victim takes an oath to tell the truth on pains of perjury would it be perjury to refer to them (the perpetrator) as a woman? And would a judge or lawyer insisting that this person is referred to by female pronouns be suborning perjury?
Sorry for the derail

Maya is truly formidable, every good wish to her.

Secret training of Judges by a lobby group and using taxpayer money to fund it is a scandal.

This secrecy around what lobby groups are doing within publicy funded institutions has got to stop, anything funded by the public purse must be 100% transparent.

This is great news.

Organisations and government need to get the message that we mean business!

Didn't know about this case. Maya is truly a force of nature, what a woman.
Fingers crossed.

horda great q. Yes I’m at the bar. I just don’t know the answer. I know I would surely in those circs describe that person as a man. I would personally and professionally consider it to be perjury and a breach of my own professional code of conduct to do otherwise. Whether that would result in me being in contempt or similar I just don’t know.
I am close to early retirement.
Honestly can’t bear the ‘realities’ of all of this. Many women at the bar partic crime and family are appalled and a lot are just considering giving it all up. Sorry not to be more helpful.

I've also got a question for HeronLanyon. I assume the Equal Treatment Bench Book is directed towards officers of the court. In terms of the behaviours it mandates, for example pronoun use, is it also directed to witnesses to control their behaviour?

Wow.
May common sense and the principle of neutrality prevail again.

Also... How on EARTH did I not know about this?!!! it's huge!

Many women at the bar partic crime and family are appalled
Appalled by the trans situation?

One side of a court case gets to offer the judge training and it is kept secret on the basis of impartiality!

Was in court last week and I asked a witness what sex the person seen was - the judge asked if I meant gender. I had to ask for the jury to go out. I cobbled together an argument about sex still being a valid term and descriptor and that gender may be private or literally irrelevant.

How did the judge respond?

And according to Maya her first judge used information presented in that training as evidence against her case even though she was not given any opportunity to challenge it (as it had been presented to the judge in secret 'training'/infoctrination).

Secret training of Judges by a lobby group and using taxpayer money to fund it is a scandal.

This secrecy around what lobby groups are doing within publicy funded institutions has got to stop, anything funded by the public purse must be 100% transparent.

This lack of transparency must bump up against the Nolan Principles of public life at some point. I've a vague feeling that MBM had an excellent thread on this topic (relating to something else) but I can't find it.