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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Julia Bindel on the FiLia conference

149 replies

ChristinaXYZ · 16/10/2021 20:03

Julie Bindel on the annual FiLiA conference in Portsmouth:

unherd.com/thepost/the-misogyny-of-trans-activists

OP posts:
Thread gallery
15
RedDogsBeg · 18/10/2021 11:46

New excuses just dropped. The trans activists have said that we should not share that picture of that sign, with the sexually violent threat, because the person sitting next to it may be under 18, and not understand the gravity of what they're being pictured endorsing.

Yet one of them is smoking so, unless they lied about their age to purchase tobacco, is at least 18.

What bollocks saying they don't understand the gravity of what they're being pictured endorsing, they know full well. If they were at all unsure they wouldn't have done it and if any of the other protesters thought it was the wrong thing to do/say they would surely have told them so, did they? Did they hell as like because they too endorse it and mean every fucking word of it.

More and more pitiful excuses because the TRAs are realising just how them stating their truth is being so badly received by the general public. This is who they are, what they stand for and what they didn't want anyone to see or hear hence the No Debate tactic.

Artichokeleaves · 18/10/2021 11:59

Just mouth open that in the wake of the murder of an MP just a couple of days ago, public groups are endorsing and celebrating violent rhetoric in politics.

Chalked on pavements in rude words. Like children.

Just reminding all: the age of criminal responsibility is ten.

And if an employed adult: endorsing this should be an urgent disciplinary meeting because massive disrepute issues. Your typical adult will respond to this with wtaf, I don't pay taxes for this.

EmbarrassingHadrosaurus · 18/10/2021 12:01

New excuses just dropped. The trans activists have said that we should not share that picture of that sign, with the sexually violent threat, because the person sitting next to it may be under 18, and not understand the gravity of what they're being pictured endorsing

I've as much patience for this as to the doorstep evangelists who go out with their children in the rain knowing that, when they knock on the door, nobody is going to say what they truly think to them because they use the tiny child to recite what the adult normally would. And they tell the child to keep on going when you invite them (including an infant in a pram) into your house to dry off and wait out a particularly bad deluge.

Cwenthryth · 18/10/2021 12:25

New excuses just dropped. The trans activists have said that we should not share that picture of that sign, with the sexually violent threat, because the person sitting next to it may be under 18, and not understand the gravity of what they're being pictured endorsing
What, they’re not old enough to understand that “suck my cock you cunts” is misogynistic sexual abuse, but they are old enough to consent to sterilise themselves because they like clothing/toys stereotypically designated for the opposite sex?

Yeah that stacks up Hmm

lanadelgrey · 18/10/2021 12:35

Any ideas of how and where to organise it? I wouldn’t be able to do it until tomorrow eve at earliest

ScreamingMeMesaur · 18/10/2021 12:38

So is it ok for over 18s to endorse forced oral sex? Cause it looks like none of them thought it was a bad idea until it was pointed out on twitter. Honestly they are so full of shit.

LastTrainToSouthsea · 18/10/2021 12:51

Long post but I want to say something about the public figure who is Councillor Claire Udy, elected city councillor, Portsmouth City Council. I’ll be very careful how I phrase things, and it’s all a matter of public record anyway @MNHQ.

The local paper, the Portsmouth News, reported on 19th April 2018:

Ms Udy’s tweet said: ‘Got a barely used travel system for baby that’s worth over £500 for £100 today also. Not even a Jew. Amazing.’

www.portsmouth.co.uk/news/politics/portsmouth-labour-candidate-deeply-regrets-twitter-comments-branded-anti-semitic-301332

When her 2013 tweet came to light, there followed a furore within the local Labour Party, not least because Udy had been selected as a council candidate in the forthcoming local elections for Charles Dickens ward.

Trying to put out the fire, Udy publicly apologised. The Portsmouth News continues:

In a statement to The News, Ms Udy said: ‘I deeply regret the comments I made on my Twitter account in 2013, and profusely apologise for any hurt or distress this may have caused. These remarks were made before I joined the Labour Party or indeed ever contemplated standing for public office. I have become more informed of the impact these views and words can have and hope I can prove through my actions they will never be repeated again.’

Leaving aside the irony of her pledge to re-educate herself about causing distress to others, her apology wasn’t enough. Many local Labour activists remained very unhappy, and before any disciplinary action could be undertaken Udy resigned from the Labour Party - just 6 days before polling day - citing 'lack of support'.

www.portsmouth.co.uk/news/politics/labour-election-candidate-resigns-portsmouth-party-after-anti-semitism-row-and-says-politics-poison-1035225

This led to a very interesting situation whereby her name was still on the ballot paper as a Labour candidate on election day, yet she was not the official Labour candidate. She won the election as an Independent councillor, but hardly any of the electorate voting Labour would have known that.

She has since persuaded another councillor to join her in her crackpot 'Progressive Portsmouth People Group' of which she is the Group Leader. (I imagine she gets an extra allowance from tax payers for that.) Her term of office is May 2018 - May 2022. It’s hard to imagine her being re-elected under that banner, or any banner tbh. Possibly she is trying to join a political party again but she would still have to go through candidate selection procedures to stand again in the local elections in a winnable ward.

The reasons that she is seemingly so protected are complex, political and personal, and connected to weak and venal political leadership of both the Council as a whole and the Audit, Governance and Standards Committee; and a group of officers who seem to think, ‘Well she’ll be out in May, what’s the point in dealing with complaints about her?’ and citing ‘freedom of expression’. She has also forged at least one strong personal relationship within the Liberal Democrat Group and would appear to have traded her vote in the council chamber, keeping the Lib Dems in power, in return for committee places and appointments such as Chair of Licensing and children & young people's champion.

Her promotion of PornHub for a long period of time is well-known and documented.

Nevertheless she has, as all elected members are required to do, signed up to Portsmouth City Council’s Code of Conduct, and it could well be that this time she has gone too far - as have the people who defend her.

Complaints can go straight to the Chief Executive and the main Group Leaders – Cllrs Gerald Vernon-Jackson (Lib Dem), George Fielding (Lab) and Simon Bosher (Con) – as well as to the Monitoring Officer. Their email addresses are on the Portsmouth City Council website. They should see what they're defending.

Helleofabore · 18/10/2021 12:57

What bollocks saying they don't understand the gravity of what they're being pictured endorsing, they know full well.

Of course they do.

And yes...is the person smoking underage as well?

Zeev · 18/10/2021 12:58

There was a woman from Eritrea talking alongside Julie about the weaponisation of rape and genocide in Tigray. Many women inside har been abused, pimped etc and the sexualised hostility from the TRAs is appalling.

The shame. A woman talking about rape as a weapon of war and these... obnoxious children screaming suck my dick and blow jobs are real jobs. God.

Grumpyosaurus · 18/10/2021 13:24

@Cwenthryth

New excuses just dropped. The trans activists have said that we should not share that picture of that sign, with the sexually violent threat, because the person sitting next to it may be under 18, and not understand the gravity of what they're being pictured endorsing What, they’re not old enough to understand that “suck my cock you cunts” is misogynistic sexual abuse, but they are old enough to consent to sterilise themselves because they like clothing/toys stereotypically designated for the opposite sex?

Yeah that stacks up Hmm

My thoughts exactly.
YouSetTheTone · 18/10/2021 14:48

@MrsOvertonsWindow

Imnobody4 Nick Gibb was closely involved with Stonewall and it's a good thing that he's been booted out of the Department for Education. He's one of the architects of the mess in schools having facilitated his Stonewall mates via DfE funding and policy documents to peddle their ideology in schools to the detriment of girls.
This explains a lot. I corresponded with him twice earlier this year (via my MP) about Stonewall policies contravening the D of Education’s own guidelines in schools, and received patronising whiffle back.

Even my MP passed Nick Gibb’s correspondence back to me nervously, saying he knew I wouldn’t be happy with the response.

Appalonia · 18/10/2021 15:06

A friend of mine who was following their group on FB said that They were told not to chalk anything on the Sunday using the c word or drawings of penises as apparently we were using them to make us look like victims!!

Cwenthryth · 18/10/2021 15:30

Can you ask for screenshots of that please Appalonia?

ANewCreation · 18/10/2021 15:30

hiyamaya.net/2021/10/18/amnesty-international-is-sexually-harassing-women-political-protest/

Maya Forstater has written an excellent letter to the Head of Amnesty UK (with a copy to the Charity Commission) to confirm if it was an official AI protest as claimed and, if so, who was responsible for child safeguarding etc

KarmaViolet · 18/10/2021 15:45

@Appalonia

A friend of mine who was following their group on FB said that They were told not to chalk anything on the Sunday using the c word or drawings of penises as apparently we were using them to make us look like victims!!
Presumably not "because it is distressing to survivors attending the conference," just optics then.

One of them boasted on Instagram that the event had - I quote ""suck my dick" energy everywhere" Envy

Artichokeleaves · 18/10/2021 15:48

"They're using our awful behaviour to make us look bad!"

I get more and more convinced that the answer to this is probably star charts and stickers.

BeyondShrinks · 18/10/2021 15:59

@PurgatoryOfPotholes

New excuses just dropped. The trans activists have said that we should not share that picture of that sign, with the sexually violent threat, because the person sitting next to it may be under 18, and not understand the gravity of what they're being pictured endorsing.

Right. Fine. Except, if a possible 17 year old is not old enough to understand that commanding (that sign is in the imperative) women to perform sex acts on you is problematic, or that calling women misogynistic obscenities is also... problematic, then why, why, why

am I supposed to trust that teenagers younger than that know what they're doing when they want to be prescribed medication like GnRH agonists?

Ignorance of the law isn't a legal defence, so 🤷🏼‍♀️

Tough shit if they're 17 and don't understand the rapeiness

PronounssheRa · 18/10/2021 16:09

New excuses just dropped. The trans activists have said that we should not share that picture of that sign, with the sexually violent threat, because the person sitting next to it may be under 18, and not understand the gravity of what they're being pictured endorsing

Meh, if your old enough to protest using threats of sexual violence your old enough to face the consequences.

I'm assuming someone has had a telling off from their parents.

Grumpyosaurus · 18/10/2021 16:32

@Artichokeleaves

"They're using our awful behaviour to make us look bad!"

I get more and more convinced that the answer to this is probably star charts and stickers.

Don't forget certificates awarded in assembly.
EmbarrassingHadrosaurus · 18/10/2021 16:36

I would like to know if any of the protestors who behaved in particularly egregious ways have a conflict or declaration of interest. Will they be using the points towards status as an ally, or for improving the Workplace Index points of an organisation? Will the experience be cited on a CV or as part of an application for a political candidacy or post?

Appalonia · 18/10/2021 17:23

Cwenthryth I have sent a message asking for that.

Inlook · 18/10/2021 18:23

www.stephsplace.uk/fly-the-flag-the-inquest.cfm

Report from the organiser.

There are some substantial safeguarding challenges with young people drawn into this.

Steph seems oblivious to this as a 69 year old male concerned only to explain to people that they are confused about the GRA and EA.

That moment came and went with the consultation and subsequent analysis, with the reform outcomes now communicated and settled for now.

Steph seems to need to catch up with the impact on children. As does Portsmouth Uni and all other agencies involved with young people. It's not enough to say that they managed to not be violent, they need to realise what else is going on.

And stop the unbelievably poorly jprotesting at meetings that

Inlook · 18/10/2021 18:25

Woops
Stop the unbelievably poorly judged protestation of conferences about violence against women when your stated success goal has to be "we were not violent to women".

SpindelWhorl · 18/10/2021 18:27

I don't want to gave StephsPlace the clicks. I looked once and it was very poorly written and laid out.

Inlook · 18/10/2021 18:30

Steph's Place
Toggle navigation
18th of October. Fly the Flag - The Inquest.
By Steph

Where do I start?

Well, I suppose at the beginning. For whatever reason, FiLiA decided to bring their conference to my home city. Postponed from the previous year, there was plenty of warning, and the local anti-fascist group quickly made it known there were not happy, resulting in FiLiA putting out a statement in response.

FiLiA admitted they support LGB Alliance, a group that most trans people would consider transphobic and toxic.

Red rag to a bull for sure.

Meanwhile, I heard that internal discussions were held amongst various pro-trans groups and within the local political parties, but no group spoke to each other. There were no meetings so we could agree on a strategy. My only contact was with an LGBT+ activist, a gay man I will call Dave.

Within our group at Steph's Place, we (more like me given the others are not local) decided not to stage a significant protest but to centre on a public awareness campaign around GRA reform, one of the six declared aims we have within our group.

We tied that in together with a celebration of "transness". I had a provisional agreement from the local trans rock group 'Hunting Hearts' that they would perform and also got an agreement with a gender-fluid singer and a beautiful choir.

Still, I was unable to provide them with a guarantee of safety, so in the end, that idea was shelved. I then received a tentative response from the anti-fascists that they may work with me, but then sadly Rosie Duffield put her big foot in it with her cervix statement, and as a Labour Party member (a party that they understandably consider transphobic), it then looked like they would refuse to work with me.

I was very concerned about this because, for my safety, I needed considerable support. Portsmouth has its fair share of transphobic and homophobic people - a classic example being the guy that attacked Owen Jones was a city resident. As we all know, trans women are very highly targeted. The breakthrough with the anti-fae came at the vigil for Sabina Nessa, where by coincidence, I met with some of their members. We got on well, and from that moment, we worked together.

The next group that joined were the academics from Portsmouth University. They reached out at a national GIN (Gender Inclusion Network) meeting, making the connection of three groups. We all knew the students at the university would turn up, but because many had not arrived back from the summer break, there was no contact. I heard a rumour that a fifth group was coming just days before the event, but they were never identified.

Weeks before the FiLiA conference, I had reached out to Amnesty International, who supported our event (called Fly the Flag), supplying two different design placards, badges, stickers and a pocket guide called "Gender Identity for Beginners". They also very kindly redesigned one of my flyers for me.

Then the big day - Saturday 16th of October, but not before two "heavy" warnings on Friday from national trans groups/charities telling me that violence and had to be avoided at all costs.

This was always the significant risk at the FiLiA event and indeed the concern of FiLiA themselves. I had pre-emptied this possibility with emails to Hampshire Police, who, I must say, were amazingly supportive throughout.

Saturday arrived, and the first surprise was that a young FiLiA volunteer arriving early (assumably for induction) smiled, rushed up to me and gave me a hug!

Shocked (I still dont know who she was), she said, "have a lovely day", and was gone in an instant. A GC follower of mine on Twitter? Mistaken identity? I dont know.

On the day, it became was clear there were different strategies from those in the stakeholder group. The anti-fae did not want to engage with FiLiA attendee's whilst I and the uni academics took the opposite view and leafleted the queue. At that point, the students were still in bed!

FiLiA had arranged for a singing group (they were excellent), and the atmosphere was very positive. About 15 - 20% of those offered a leaflet took one. Yes, I got a "bugger off" from one lady possibly in her thirties, but equally, another gave up her place in the queue to come back and talk to me, saying, "I really dont hate you - I hope you are ok".

I was never misgendered; everyone (baring that one "bugger off" comment) was either friendly or at least civil. I noticed Maya F in the queue, who very politely said that one of my blogs was incorrect. In fairness, given the toxicity of the trans debate, I certainly have no complaints.

The only other incident to note was that one lesbian trans ally from the uni team who was helping me distribute leaflets had "words" with a lesbian who had opposite views and who had started shouting at her. The GC lady was determined to talk about penises!

Their, "row" was witnessed by a senior man from Portsmouth City Council.

Oops!

Trans speeches followed later in the morning. Both the Lib Dems and Labour councillors had to pull out (all parties ceased campaigning because of the murder of Sir David Amess), but in some ways, that was good because my speech was way too long.

In fact, in the end, I even skipped a page!

You can read my entire speech by clicking here, I am sure FiLiA will want to know if I slandered them.

Lol.

At lunchtime, things started to heat up. One lady walked out, saying she was going home, my impression being she had talked to some FiLiA members who held transphobic views to which she disagreed. We swapped telephone numbers, and she has already text me. A story for another day, perhaps.

Then one of my GC followers came and talked to me, bringing her daughter with her. Mum said hello, and then left us to talk with the daughter who is at Uni in the west country, with her saying she "felt like she had crossed a picket line" and did not want to be at the FiLiA event. I explained my cause, and she was off to convert her mum. Trans rights are indeed human rights.

I had a few chats with other FiLiA members; all were good. I know many trans people (and the anti-fae) disagree with me talking to GC people, but I do, and I am not going to stop.

No debate is wrong - Stonewall, take note. Not that they are known feminists, nor do I think their umbrella is at all useful.

During the day, while FiLiA members were in the Guildhall, we chatted to each other and spoke to members of the public - more allies to the trans cause!

Music played, the guitarist was strumming, we were singing all seemed good.

I tweeted out much the same, not knowing that a small group had arrived sitting at the far end of the Guildhall steps. It would appear they were responsible for writing offensive signs using chalk that had been left around. The problem is if people are determined to make trouble how do you stop them?

Further, the question is WHY make trouble?

What was the motive to offend?

The GC of course blamed the trans camp. Some on the trans side suggest the GC did it so to cause uproar. We certainly know there were setups both at the protest event both in London and Manchester.

Come Sunday, I walked into a Twitter storm.

I was a bit like a rabbit caught in a cars headlamp, I did not know how, who or why but checking with the excellent Police Liason Officers, they confirmed what had happened was done by people outside the known stakeholder's groups.

I sent a message to FiLiA leaders condemning what had occurred, but I am uncertain if they got it, and on reflection, we needed better communication with FiLiA. I would also suggest to trans activists that going forward, we take images of signs and placards and load them on a website to confirm what has been approved by stakeholders before the start of any event.

Even consider body cams - yep, you honestly need eyes in the back of your head!

Basically, it takes just one person to cause controversy.

Rossie Duffield, with her cervix comment, for example, upsetting trans men, trans women, intersex folks, not to forget some women who have had a complete hysterectomy. The one LGB Alliance guy at the Manchester Pride trans support event - and amazingly just a few days ago, a Tory Portsmouth City Councilor who voted against a motion condemning conversion therapy.

Sunday morning continued with me having discussions outside the hall with various very well-known gender-critical women. One, kindly bought me a coffee, which I desperately needed. Thank you Helen!

Our original plan was to leaflet the FiLiA attendees for a second day, but by coincidence, the 'Great South Run' was taking place, so we leafleted participants and those attending the run instead. In total, between the four stakeholders, we distributed thousands of leaflets, hopefully making hundreds, perhaps thousands of trans allies. That's the positive.

The stress of organising an event is immense, and yes, I got a bit emotional come Sunday lunchtime.

The FiLiA conference was billed as the biggest feminist conference in Europe, and as a community, we need to do so much better - come next year; hopefully, GIN will be up and fully running, and trans activism will be more organised.

A success?

The goal was for FiLiA to have their conference without a violent incident, and this was achieved.

Would we at Steph's Place campaign at a G C event again?

As the matter stands very sadly, yes.

This is not a matter of single-sex spaces, we at Steph's Place concur with the Equality Act - we all need safe spaces at times. This is a matter of conflating the EA with the GRA, which is simply wrong.

FiLiA is an outstanding feminist organisation that does some fantastic work (even the anti-fae members agree with that). As a feminist I would have loved to have been in that hall. My understanding is that they did not talk that much about the 'gender war'.

But sadly FiLiA has lost its way regarding human rights.

Trans rights.

They were (and still are) in a good position to help end the gender war because this is a feminist war that only feminists can resolve before placing ideas and agreements to the dithering, fence-sitting, politicians.

The truth is the war currently works for politicians (mainly men). Because we seem to be constantly scraping with each other when in reality, we should be holding them to account.

Men, the winners.

Women the losers (again).

Gutted.

As we started to pack up, we swept the site for offensive signs; there were none.

The truth is the vast majority of attendees were very polite, and some very friendly. I doubt very much if all the members are GC and are sure most of FiLiA members want to end the gender war - for sure I am sick of it.

The anti-fae kept to their word; they kept me safe and looked after me exceedingly well.

I am truly grateful to them and as it happens I share all their left-wing aims.

And then the goodbye's thanking everyone for their support.

My final goodbye was to Dave the gay man, the very first to work with me regarding the FiLiA event.

He gave me one of my flyers "a woman asked me to give you this" - the image is at the top of this page.

Whoever you are, a huge massive 'thank you' - and yes, once I got in the car tears did flow for a second time - there are decent people on this earth and for that, I am truly grateful.

And today as I write this blog no doubt Twitter is going loopy with something else to shout about but for me a rest. So social media is out for a spell, apologies that I am not replying to tweets but I suspect I know what is best.

Take care

Steph x

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