Legal rights of gender dysphoric yr 8 boy to be placed in a girls dorm

[PrawnQuaver]

Please could anyone help me understand the legal rights involved in the situation of a private school placing a gender dysphoric year 8 boy, who is currently identifying as female, into a girls dorm on school residential trip without consulting the parents of the three other girls in that dorm or asking the girls themselves?
The 10 protected characteristics of the 2010 Gender Equality Act have been quoted as cast iron justification but I don't know enough about it to provide a strong counter argument.

I've name changed for this post but am a long time mumsnetter

That said, I can understand some girls feeling awkward about getting dressed etc in a room with a trans child,

How very big of you to understand that girls might like to have their feelings of privacy, dignity and comfort, let alone safety, considered.

@Hugoslavia

To counter some of the fear, if he is genuinely identifying as female (and it's not just some recent fad), then the chances are that he would be attracted to boys, not girls. And, I would have thought that most Yr 8 girls wouldn't wish to have sex in the first place, much less in front of their friends and the chances of them being attracted to a boy who identifies as a girl would be even less so. Secondly, the child in question is unlikely to be a rapist any more than anyone's teenage Yr 8 son. Therefore, in the highly unlikely scenario of a girl finding herself pregnant, I would suggest that it would be most likely consensual. Therefore that might be something to discuss before going on any residential trip as there will also be opportunities for them to mingle/socialise with the opposite sex in any event in some hidden corner or other. That said, I can understand some girls feeling awkward about getting dressed etc in a room with a trans child, although I suspect that it is much more awkward for the trans child themselves. Personally, I would talk to the school and ask them what measures they put in place generally during a trip to ensure the safety of kids. You may find that a teacher sleeps in one of the dorms anyway.

Genuine question.

What's in it for the girls? What benefit does it give them?

This is an old thread

@Hugoslavia

To counter some of the fear, if he is genuinely identifying as female (and it's not just some recent fad), then the chances are that he would be attracted to boys, not girls. And, I would have thought that most Yr 8 girls wouldn't wish to have sex in the first place, much less in front of their friends and the chances of them being attracted to a boy who identifies as a girl would be even less so. Secondly, the child in question is unlikely to be a rapist any more than anyone's teenage Yr 8 son. Therefore, in the highly unlikely scenario of a girl finding herself pregnant, I would suggest that it would be most likely consensual. Therefore that might be something to discuss before going on any residential trip as there will also be opportunities for them to mingle/socialise with the opposite sex in any event in some hidden corner or other. That said, I can understand some girls feeling awkward about getting dressed etc in a room with a trans child, although I suspect that it is much more awkward for the trans child themselves. Personally, I would talk to the school and ask them what measures they put in place generally during a trip to ensure the safety of kids. You may find that a teacher sleeps in one of the dorms anyway.

Jesus Christ, where to even start with this load of shit?

She has the same legal rights as other girls in the dorm. If any of the girls are a threat to each other they'll obviously be taken out of disciplined. It's not rocket science.

Jesus Christ, where to even start with this load of shit?

Perfectly put Thefartingsofaofdenmarkstreet.

@HelplesslyHoping

She has the same legal rights as other girls in the dorm. If any of the girls are a threat to each other they'll obviously be taken out of disciplined. It's not rocket science.

Not a girl. Obviously it is rocket science.

Shocking that this is happening. What are they going to do when this boy gets to 15. It makes a mockery of having seperate sex dorms . They cant have it both ways. If a boy claims to be a girl he gets the rights to sleep in the same room as them because it is unsafe for him to sleep with the boys because he is different to the boys, meanwhile the girls are not allowed to acknowledge that he is a boy and has a penis/testicles/produces sperm/is larger and stronger them they are and has the potential to make one of them pregnant . I am angry on your daughters behalf that she is put in this position

@HelplesslyHoping

She has the same legal rights as other girls in the dorm. If any of the girls are a threat to each other they'll obviously be taken out of disciplined. It's not rocket science.

No, they have the same legal rights as those of the same sex as them, their sex is male not female.

What's in it for the girls? What benefit does it give them?

They get to feel all warm and fuzzy inside that they have put aside any feelings of discomfort they may have, and have done their female duty of 'being kind'....

Hugoslavia - if its not a problem having male bodied people sleeping with female bodied people why do we have single sex wards/single sex toilets/single sex dormitories? Why cant a male teacher sleep in a room with a bunch of teenage girls ? Why would girls and women not want to shower in a public shower with an unknown male bodied person? Are women really supposed to know the minds of males who identify as women. What has changed about the mind of a male that now identifies as female? If one has been able to mask this inner femalesness for decades that no one knew they were female then how is anyone really supposed to be able to tell the difference boe other than they are wearing lipstick?

@HelplesslyHoping

She has the same legal rights as other girls in the dorm. If any of the girls are a threat to each other they'll obviously be taken out of disciplined. It's not rocket science.

They are biologically and legally male. Don't talk rubbish.

@Thefartingsofaofdenmarkstreet

What's in it for the girls? What benefit does it give them?

They get to feel all warm and fuzzy inside that they have put aside any feelings of discomfort they may have, and have done their female duty of 'being kind'....

That's only possible answer, isn't it.

I would just like one of these 'why can't women be kind' people to admit it.

This FOI document is relevant to the OP.

Link to EHRC summary of trans work

The relevant section is on page 3, headed:

Trans pupil’s complaint against a school

"We received a complaint from a trans boy about his school, which is running a school trip to S40(2) but has refused him permission to sleep in the boys’ dorm and instead says he has to sleep in a separate room or the girls’ dorm. We have been in correspondence with the school regarding the justification for its decision and, from its response, it appears that the School has taken a case-by-case approach and considered the risks involved. In coming to its decision the School looked at his particular request and consulted with him, his parents, and his S40(2) Pastoral Team. The School identified the legitimate aims of safeguarding both him and his fellow students, The safeguarding concerns revolved around privacy, welfare and the risk of sexual interaction. The School considered various options before deciding he should sleep in his own room, for which the School is covering the additional cost.
Based on the above we do not consider there to be sufficient basis on which to take matters further and a letter is being finalised to this effect."

This is from the EHRC & is their take on a similar issue, albeit with a female pupil identifying as a boy. The basis of the school's decision was "The safeguarding concerns revolved around privacy, welfare and the risk of sexual interaction." That applies in the OP's scenario too.

Ask to see the school safeguarding risk assessment that has been done for the girls to keep them safe from assault.

I would just like one of these 'why can't women be kind' people to admit it.

Me too, Datun, I would also like them admit openly that their priority is males, always and ever and that females are too low to even deserve the slightest consideration.

I'd get out the big guns, reputation, publicity, finance.

The three families of the three daughters each send a letter saying that they refuse consent for their daughter to share a bedroom with a biological male. They seek immediate written assurance that their daughter will NEVER do so. Otherwise they will send her elsewhere.

The school knows perfectly well that it only takes ONE girl to leave for that reason, or one leak to the press. The publicity would damage the school's reputation, trigger a mass withdrawal of female pupils by anxious parents, and the loss of fees could bankrupt the school.

Gosh, this subject sure does attract a lot of new posters.

Regrettably, as a ‘Guide’ produced by two organisations with a particular ‘take’ on the issues, it misrepresents the law and could cause considerable difficulties for schools if implemented.

School children can indeed have the protected characteristic of gender reassignment if they have embarked on a profess or part of a process for reassigning sex. Changing clothes, features such as hairstyle or name used are perfectly sufficient to qualify.

Much of the opinion expressed in this thread so far is not based on firm legal grounds.

You may not like what the law is, but it is the law.

You may not like what the law is, but it is the law.

The law also allows sex exceptions for communal sleeping areas and as no minor children can have a GRC, in this particular situation, it would be legal to exclude this child as they are not female.

You may not like what the law is, but it is the law.

It's your interpretation of the law.

I'd very much like to see it legally tested, because there is no way that our government, or the general public, would agree that a legal balm for those who have gender dysphoria meant that you can change your legal sex by altering your hairdo.

Can you afford to pay for a solicitor to write you a letter outlining your concerns in legal terms? That’ll put the wind up them.

Wow, I knew there would be some hatred and ignorance in some of these responses, but even by MN standards...

I put across a fairly reasonable middle of the road view point and got told to 'fuck off'!! If that's the level of aggression that people stoop to today, rather than have a reasoned discussion, it's unsurprising that there is so much vitriol in the world!

I won't be responding further. I won't stoop to that level.