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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Campaign of bullying and intimidation at Sussex University vs Professor Kathleen Stock

501 replies

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 07/10/2021 09:36

Absolute disgrace. Posters on campus calling for her to be sacked. Academic colleague tweeting that he agrees with this. twitter.com/FrancescoFv37/status/1445727937660076032?t=-Di7mRf5sznFvvzww8UI2w&s=19 I saw a tweet saying there was a burning in effigy. Can't confirm this but nothing would surprise me now. Time for Sussex staff, students and alumni to put their heads over the parapet.

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foxgoosefinch · 16/10/2021 12:23

There are amongst students, sadly - as in any area of life - always a few petty bullies and habitual unjustified complainers (we all know people like this - and I say unjustified because some complaints are of course justified, but I’m talking about people whose complaints aren’t). Years ago you’d encounter the odd student like this and they could make your life a misery for a while, but it generally tended to be just bitching with other students, filling in feedback forms with vitriol and making complaints to your manager. They would tend to be few and far between though, and the unjustified complaints relatively easy to disprove. (I’m not talking about things like course content or political issues or whatever, but stuff like long complaints about your dress sense or accent on feedback forms (or, as I once had, a student who made a complaint to my manager that I was not “supportive” to students because I wouldn’t move all my scheduled seminars to accommodate her rehearsals for a campus play).

I always estimated that in any group of students you’d get about 20 percent who absolutely adored you, 60 percent who were neutral but generally well meaning, and 20 percent who took a dislike to you, and that’s just how it is - like with any walk of life. People’s personalities clash, they have likes and dislikes and prejudices - one student finds you too posh, another finds you too common, another too political, someone else thinks you’re an establishment stooge and another doesn’t like your sense of humour or whatever and then there are some who really do like you and think you’re great; and the vast majority don’t care that much.

Now, however, the ones with a grudge can get online and drum up a righteous fury with a whole mob of other random strangers, and turn it into a national issue that you can’t reply to with any facts or reason. I feel for Kathleen Stock as we pretty much all live in fear of being found inadvertently wrong by the student thought police these days, and having no right to reply or redress. I know of this happening in regards to race to a lovely colleague of mine who is not in the least bit racist but was targeted by a (white) student who disliked her with an unjustified complaint, and made to go through all sorts of public ritual retraining and “diversity education” - even though everyone knew it was malicious - to satisfy the student reps.

The irony is that a lot of academia is still very unwoke and sexist, so on one hand you can be getting put down by older male colleagues for having children and constantly coming up against entrenched sexism, homophobia and racism; yet the students think you’re a right wing bigot who needs educating in rightthink and hate you because they think you’re a living representative of the oppressive establishment.

It feels like clinging to a small slice of sanity between the boomer men and the woke students sometimes.

GCAcademic · 16/10/2021 12:25

That letter is libellous, so no surprise that a newspaper wasn't willing to publish it.

GCAcademic · 16/10/2021 12:28

I know of this happening in regards to race to a lovely colleague of mine who is not in the least bit racist but was targeted by a (white) student who disliked her with an unjustified complaint, and made to go through all sorts of public ritual retraining and “diversity education” - even though everyone knew it was malicious - to satisfy the student reps.

Exactly the same thing happened to a colleague of mine. Now no one in my department wants to teach anything to do with race.

EsmaCannonball · 16/10/2021 12:29

A friend of mine works at a university with a lucrative exchange programme with China. On the relevant courses all teaching materials, lesson plans and lectures have to be vetted by Chinese Communist Party officials. The university just goes along with it. Something has to be done about universities being run as businesses.

Jaysmith71 · 16/10/2021 12:31

@GCAcademic

That letter is libellous, so no surprise that a newspaper wasn't willing to publish it.
And not actually 'signed' by anyone. Lucie just 'put the names of everyone I could think of.'
merrymouse · 16/10/2021 12:36

The letter is long and incorrect. Of course it wasn’t published.

foxgoosefinch · 16/10/2021 12:36

Exactly the same thing happened to a colleague of mine. Now no one in my department wants to teach anything to do with race.

I like to think maybe we’re both undercover in the same department Grin I do know of a few other women in the department who are GC, but we tend to only discover each other through whispered conversations at children’s parties and suchlike!

bd67thSaysReinstateLangCleg · 17/10/2021 01:37

[quote Imnobody4]Found this directed to The Times re the publication of Debbie Hayton's letter.

In response to 16 GC trans people that stated were representative of the trans community, 130 trans people wrote a letter as a right of reply. They have ignored it. Is this right? Please RT!!
@MhairiBlack @DavidLammy @TaiwoOwatemi @OwenJones84 @NadiaWhittomeMP

twitter.com/LucieWestenra/status/1449115109268365313?s=20[/quote]
I don't think that SI 1999/1102 says what Lucie thinks it says...

bd67thSaysReinstateLangCleg · 17/10/2021 01:41

I don't think that SI 1999/1102 says what Lucie thinks it says...

I mean, Lucie says "Standing Order 1999", which doesn't exist, so I'm guessing that SI 1999/1102 is what was meant.

alreadytaken · 18/10/2021 23:29

From the Times article "One of the campaign leaders said that activists did not want to reveal their identities for fear of opening themselves up to abuse or potential defamation claims."

It is always a defense that your comments are true, they only need worry about defamation claims if they know their comments to be false. So they are perfectly aware that their claims are defamatory.

Wildfart · 18/10/2021 23:33

It feels like clinging to a small slice of sanity between the boomer men and the woke students sometimes.

And the bonkers unions just to up the surreal day to day.

Throckmorton · 18/10/2021 23:39

Sorry if this is a bit of a tangent - I just tried to buy Material Girls on Amazon, and its out of stock until November?! Sinister, or encouragingly popular?

foxgoosefinch · 19/10/2021 00:07

Certainly hasn’t been bad for sales, I think - which might well encourage publishers not to “cancel” women writers just because some wet behind the ears English graduates don’t “feel safe” in an office which might publish their work.

Ekofisk · 19/10/2021 07:15

@foxgoosefinch

Certainly hasn’t been bad for sales, I think - which might well encourage publishers not to “cancel” women writers just because some wet behind the ears English graduates don’t “feel safe” in an office which might publish their work.
When books are literary violence.
alreadytaken · 19/10/2021 10:13

The Amazon stock shortage sounds as if Material Girls is getting a second print run as it's a best seller. It'll hopefully be available in time for Christmas presents.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 19/10/2021 10:15

It is always a defense that your comments are true, they only need worry about defamation claims if they know their comments to be false. So they are perfectly aware that their claims are defamatory.

Indeed.

TheCountessofFitzdotterel · 19/10/2021 13:09

@alreadytaken

The Amazon stock shortage sounds as if Material Girls is getting a second print run as it's a best seller. It'll hopefully be available in time for Christmas presents.
Also when the paperback comes out they will be more likely to put some serious marketing oomph behind it.

Always better to be the book that starts small and sells out its print run than the one with the massive advance that ends up remaindered.

BoreOfWhabylon · 19/10/2021 14:23

Good interview this morning on Radio 5 Live of Prof Sophie Scott by Naga Munchetty re cancel culture, academic freedom and DocStock

Starts around 1:08:00

www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m0010pgk

Looks like #NoDebate is over Smile

2catsandacomputer · 19/10/2021 20:20

@Igneococcus

Sorry to bother you but I'm trying to find someone to help me.

You've linked a number of Times articles with sharetokens. I'm currently a Times subscriber but I just cannot work out how to do a share token for a particular article.

I generally read the Times on my laptop and just cannot work out how to do it there is nothing obvious that provides a link with "sharetoken" in the url.

Does it only work on phones or ipads?

I really hope you can help!!

EerilyDisembodied · 19/10/2021 20:32

I share them from a phone, so not sure, but if you right-click on the page is there a share option there?

ApplesGalore · 19/10/2021 20:39

I was at Sussex on Saturday (it was an open day, so very busy). As mentioned upthread a demo kicked off at about 12, probably 15 or so protestors. Numbers rose quickly to at least about 50, all masked and mostly hooded. Chanting, flag and banner waving and leafletting the passers-by. Pretty unpleasant stuff. The leaflet was amateur to say the least, badly written, swearwords, saying "join us" but of course no contact details.

Igneococcus · 19/10/2021 20:46

@2catsandacomputer

No bother at all.
I do sharetokens on a computer using Firefox. I click on the envelop icon on top or bottom of the article and then it opens an email (you might have to sign in) with the sharetoken link in the body of the email, then just copy&paste.
It doesn't work on my android phone and it never worked on my (now broken) android tablet either, and I've never figured out why.

Scoutingformygirls · 19/10/2021 20:54

*Good interview this morning on Radio 5 Live of Prof Sophie Scott by Naga Munchetty re cancel culture, academic freedom and DocStock

Starts around 1:08:00

www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m0010pgk

Looks like #NoDebate is over smile*

Thanks @BoreOfWhabylon - this was great to listen to and to hear someone so intelligent and articulate stating the facts so calmly (and being given time and space to do so) was incredibly positive. I wonder if there was any backlash?

BoreOfWhabylon · 19/10/2021 20:58

I really don't think there can be Scouting. Naga was very professional and non-partisan and Sophie Scott was eminently reasonable.

BoreOfWhabylon · 19/10/2021 21:00

I texted the number on the programme website to let them know how much I appreciated the interview.