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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

New guidelines for transgender participation unveiled by UK sports councils

312 replies

Highwind · 29/09/2021 23:01

Reported by the Guardian....

www.theguardian.com/sport/2021/sep/29/new-guidelines-for-transgender-participation-unveiled-by-uk-sports-councils

OP posts:
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6
MrsOvertonsWindow · 30/09/2021 18:34

Presumably British Kickboxing have confirmed this with their Insurers?
The Times reporting it - share token:

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/fecb971c-21d6-11ec-8cb7-e60ba8dbca61?shareToken=967bf20bf0d83e1923d23b58c912c36a

ErrolTheDragon · 30/09/2021 18:38

We are disappointed to read this review, which rather than focussing on bettering its existing guidance for trans people in sport, yet again ignores the lived experiences of trans people, and misinterprets the Equality Act and academic literature.

Translation: we're pissed off that this review has the temerity to actually think about women in women's sport, rather than focussing solely on what (some) trans people want. It interprets the EA according to actual law rather than what Stonewall has been pretending it is, and reviews the latest academic literature properly instead of sticking to whatever Harper came up with some years ago.

Mermaids would like to remind everyone that the safety and experience of women and girls in the context of women's and girls' sports is completely irrelevant and unimportant.

littlbrowndog · 30/09/2021 18:50

Good summary

thecritic.co.uk/a-step-change-in-sports-policy/

Totallydefeated · 30/09/2021 19:03

Unbelievable that kickboxing of all sports, say this.

How thick can you get?

OvaHere · 30/09/2021 19:12

@Totallydefeated

Unbelievable that kickboxing of all sports, say this.

How thick can you get?

I don't think it's that they're thick. I think it's something else entirely.

I'm not sure my post would stand if I said what I really thought about the motivations.

ducksalive · 30/09/2021 19:18

Kick boxing is an odd sport to be so blasé about physical damage I would have thought.

Ekofisk · 30/09/2021 19:31

As I posted previously, I’d love to see Kickboxing’s risk assessment that has assessed the risk to women from trans women (and to trans men from men) and found that risk acceptable.

OvaHere · 30/09/2021 20:02

This explains a lot about BKC.

twitter.com/FondOfBeetles/status/1443650141907472387

New guidelines for transgender participation unveiled by UK sports councils
ducksalive · 30/09/2021 20:07

Ok, that makes a very odd decision slightly clearer.
It seems a legally risky move in terms of getting sued.

Queenoftheashes · 30/09/2021 20:39

I don’t see why anyone would have an issue with female and open unless they have shitty motives

Spiindoctor · 30/09/2021 20:54

But having to enter an "open" or "mixed" competition isn't validating enough for some, or indeed many. Only being treated as if they are actual women will do.

Now that the competition is fairly selected, male bodied against male bodied, they won't compete because they don't now have the physical advantage.

Datun · 30/09/2021 21:09

Transgender men should not compete in female categories once treatment with testosterone commences, as this would constitute a doping violation.

How is this not sex discrimination? Men are allowed a level of testosterone that women are not to compete at the same sport.

Ekofisk · 30/09/2021 21:19

@Datun

Transgender men should not compete in female categories once treatment with testosterone commences, as this would constitute a doping violation.

How is this not sex discrimination? Men are allowed a level of testosterone that women are not to compete at the same sport.

It’s female bodied people (trans men) taking testosterone.

Testosterone (anabolic steroid) is a banned substance.

It’s doping if those people then want to compete in female categories. Not sex discrimination.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 30/09/2021 21:22

I think Datun is saying that it is ridiculous that TW can compete against women, but TM can't.

Ekofisk · 30/09/2021 21:24

Ah, right I see now.

As you were.

EdgeOfACoin · 30/09/2021 21:33

Hmm, was just spoken about on Sky News

Datun · 30/09/2021 21:34

I know it's considered doping, but it's raising a woman's testosterone level to that which is acceptable for men who have had it reduced through artificial means in order for them to compete against said women.

I mean none of this makes any sense at all anyway. But the only reason women can't even attempt to have the same testosterone level is because of a rule about doping.

The result is that men will still have a higher testosterone level than women, and there's fuck all that women can do about it.

Because of a rule.

A rule that benefits men. But fuck all the rules that benefit women. Every last one.

It's the one-way street of it all that got me.

Women obviously are being discriminated against by being excluded from their own bloody sport. But it's the insult to injury that means they can't even attempt to mitigate it.

McDuffy · 30/09/2021 22:19

I just realised this evening that I was interviewed for this study about 12-18 months ago Blush on three different sports. So there is viper input Grin

timeisnotaline · 30/09/2021 22:25

@McDuffy were they very biased leading questions that completely failed to focus on inclusivity or the fact transwomen have been competing and playing forever? Grin and just show its all hugely flawed? If you ask Beth someone on Twitter who isn’t happy about it they are….

NiceGerbil · 30/09/2021 23:06

The bodies that issued the statement- note for each UK country which is awesome and they obviously decided to have a United front - can't tell sports what to do, I don't think.

It would be worth checking but I think they are more for supporting the sports. Through funding things that will help get people into it, have good facilities, including when the clubs find someone with real potential they can have the network/ kit etc to develop them.

And our sport as I mentioned is incredible in terms of results at Olympics and so I assume elsewhere. We punch above our weight for our population.

And our women Excel. So many medals. They will not want to have that compromised. And they control loads of money to distribute. 100s of millions between the 4 UK bodies.

That's the leverage. They have said their piece and it's very clear. And the funding they distribute is v important.

littlbrowndog · 30/09/2021 23:13

From the report. The fear of people to say what they thought

How did the most marginalised get such power

New guidelines for transgender participation unveiled by UK sports councils
Clymene · 30/09/2021 23:26

@littlbrowndog

From the report. The fear of people to say what they thought

How did the most marginalised get such power

Wow. That's pretty damning. I'm so glad they included it though. People need to know how frightening, misogynist and exclusionary this movement is.

It's white supremacy dressed in sequins. There is nothing inclusive about it

littlbrowndog · 30/09/2021 23:29

Damming tbh

NiceGerbil · 01/10/2021 00:00

I feel like there's more than a suggestion with this whole sports thing over the past couple of years about really deep seated, often subconscious beliefs. Esp with men in general but also with women.

Ideas like-

Sport is for men really. Women doing it is not of any interest. They aren't as strong fast etc. What's the point?

Women and girls are just not competitive, determined, driven, single minded or aggressive generally. It's just not the same as seeing men compete. They really battle it out.

It's unladylike. All the things above ^ are just not natural for girls/ women. Are they being pushed into doing things against their natures and their best interest. Down to this misguided equality idea?

I'm sure there's more.

But there does seem to be all through this from those who want trans inclusion. The statement that it needs to happen because trans people have it hard growing up and they're really vulnerable and to feel unable to participate in sport is just a kick in the teeth for women and girls. (Transwomen this is said about. TM different for a number of reasons when it comes to inclusion).

As so many others have said there are massive probs with girls women sport.

We do it when little then puberty all falls away. Breasts, puberty, pressure to adhere to beauty standards. Long hair is a pita to go swimming or wash all the time. Worried about period. General self consciousness.

And so many things have white outfits. I found out on here that gymnastics from quite a young age often rule no knickers under. Periods?! Fashion for athletics women is v skimpy now. Etc etc.

Over the years so many reports, initiatives, studies, press attention etc about getting more participation from women and older girls.

And BOOM forget all that. It's much more urgent to open the female category up to males.

It's such a headfuck.