AIBU to actually be starting to like the term cis?

[newnameday]

Hopefully this is allowed. Not bashing anyone.

I hated the term cis however this morning it hit me that we may be better embracing it if we can't eradicate it.

We have TWAW etc. But in the next however many years, we may find it easier, for example you're on a dating site "cis woman seeking cis man" therefore you will (hopefully) link with genetically male partners. Rather than "seeking a man" and you may possibly end up with a trans man. Again, no judgement or bashing, however I only ever wanted to be with someone who was genetically male, it's just my preference and I should be able to state this in a simple way.

So you would be able to request a man (if happy with cis or trans man) or woman, a cis man/woman and the subsections of lesbian or gay.

Prepared to be told IABU and sure that someone will likely be able to point out why this is bad. I'm not wanting this to be a bashing thread. I'm just starting to think the term may become useful in the not-too-distant future.

Also prepared this may end up deleted.

Much clearer to refer to women and trans women, men and trans men than use cis women and women, cis men and men, as you would never be quite sure if women included cis and trans women or just trans women.

@scarpa
You’ve only seen a tiny minority of transwomen. The tiny minority, with gender dysphoria, I imagine.

The majority of adult human males now claiming womanhood aren’t like the wildly non-representative group of trans people you’ve met.

@RainbowBriteUk as long as the same respect is retuned when women wish for female only services.

[quote herecomesthsun]@Bizawit

well that is just bizarre.

There is nothing rude in requesting to be described a particular way.

I identify as a woman; that is not rude.

Someone calling a feminist a TERF; that IS rude.

(unless they like the term)

hope that helps[/quote]
Many (most?) women, quite justifiably, find it unacceptable when it is suggested that the word “female” is an offensive term.

In the same way, to say that “cis” is an offensive term and can never be used, is equally unacceptable.

Both words are important descriptors and should be allowed to be used , in cases where descriptive clarification of something is required.

That doesn’t mean people have to go around shouting “cis woman!” In your face.

Why are you speaking for people with DSD's then? Because even if you've got one, you surely don't speak for all. DSD's have nothing at all to do with being trans and it's pretty shit to bring people with serious medical issues into it.

I could give you links to several people with DSD and they don't agree with being dragged into this either.

You do realise that people with a DSD are either male or female, not some third type of sex?

And why get so angry about a discussion, are we only allowed to discuss things you personally approve?

I don’t understand why transwomen get to be called just women with no prefix but we have to as women be cis women? If we need a transfix then so do they. So everyone is just women or a prefix is used for both. Biological females are still in the majority of women so don’t need to be a subset yet

I just feel we may get to a point where if you're introduced to a woman or man, how do you know if they're trans, unless they tell you.

I'd say in the vast majority of cases, it's blatantly obvious what sex someone is.

If women are to be called cis-women then logically trans women should be called trans-cis-women because that’s what they are trying to achieve

No

There’s
Women
And trans women.

People are just obsessed with constantly trying to create the next new buzz word

Bizawit, what matters with people who have CAIS is the issue of their phenotypic differences and infertility.

This is important medical information for them, so if information about their sex was observed incorrectly at birth, they need to know.

You can’t identify as having CAIS. It is an observation made by a doctor, not something anybody can just decide they have.

@SquareYellow

I don’t understand why transwomen get to be called just women with no prefix but we have to as women be cis women? If we need a transfix then so do they. So everyone is just women or a prefix is used for both. Biological females are still in the majority of women so don’t need to be a subset yet

My point was prefix for both to determine if you were born female or male. But I agree we shouldn't have a subcategory thrust upon us. Especially since it seems some trans people are citing cis for other reasons.

Women and trans women. Simple.

Why the fuck should I have to declare myself 'not trans' to differentiate myself from a small number of males who think our words now belong to them?

'Cis' implies that adult males are somehow part of our sex class.

It's forcing the religious belief of gender identity ideology on those who think it's nonsense.

I won't pretend people can change sex.

Transwomen are men who identify as women.

Women are women. We don't need a qualifier.

@scarpa Yes!!! Well said!

Female is a sex descriptor rather than an appropriated prefix and females don't themselves find it offensive. The people referring to female as 'offensive' are those who are issuing threats to FGM campaigners.

They don't need to shout 'cis woman'. We are women, no prefix needed. Those shouting in our faces seem to prefer 'witch' anyway as the woman peacefully protesting outside the Scottish Parliament experienced.

But I thought it's transphobic if you don't want a trans man

Yabvu

Woman is fine

Surely, any descriptor should go in front of the new subset of women, ie. the trans women.

Otherwise, you're allowing men to appropriate the word woman/women, and born females have to then make up a new word to describe themselves.

Can you even imagine that happening the other way around?

Men already have so much that women don't, and now they want our label as well?

@Whatsnewpussyhat

Women and trans women. Simple.

Why the fuck should I have to declare myself 'not trans' to differentiate myself from a small number of males who think our words now belong to them?

'Cis' implies that adult males are somehow part of our sex class.

It's forcing the religious belief of gender identity ideology on those who think it's nonsense.

I won't pretend people can change sex.

I think this was where the error in my thinking was. I was thinking that I have to identify myself as non-trans. I was thinking that someone would have to confirm they were non-trans to me. Therefore they couldn't just say "I'm a man" under the created umbrella term man, they would specify if they were a man (either trans or cis) or would confirm which they were.

Anyway, cis as defined in this thread is incorrect to my way of thinking.

Also I'm not in a position for dating sites anyway, it was more a musing I had in a conversation with my husband this morning, thinking about future generations and DC trying to date in the future.

@Bizawit

I did not say that "cis" should never be used.

(Although I would agree with PP that the derivation from Latin is a bit lame)

I said that quite a few women find it offensive (see thread, passim)

Women who do not find it offensive can of course choose to label themselves that way, it's a free country.

I am rather older than the usage "cis" and I would like to go on being called a woman. It seems like a sensible term, and it is generally clear ti most people, in most settings, exactly what is being referred to.

Given that a lot of women don't like being called "cis", however, it might be more respectful of women's feelings for it not to be used, unless it is clear that your audience is enthusiastic about the term?

@ShrillSiren

Why are you speaking for people with DSD's then? Because even if you've got one, you surely don't speak for all. DSD's have nothing at all to do with being trans and it's pretty shit to bring people with serious medical issues into it.

I could give you links to several people with DSD and they don't agree with being dragged into this either.

You do realise that people with a DSD are either male or female, not some third type of sex?

And why get so angry about a discussion, are we only allowed to discuss things you personally approve?

I am not dragging anyone into anything. I never said I was speaking for all “people with a DSD”. I never said “people with a DSD” are a “third sex” (what are you even on about?)

Also by the way, there are many different types of DSD, and whilst
Some people embrace this terminology, some people with variations in sex characteristics find the term “DSD” (which typically stands for “disorders of sex development”) incredibly offensive.

Also I don’t know what you mean by “serious medical condition”, only a minority of variations in sex development are associated with an underlying medical issue which needs treatment. The majority are simply differences in development.

I am frankly shocked to hear that you know of people with sex variations as you are clearly very ignorant on the subject.

The OP said that she fancied people who are “genetically male” . I pointed out that cis women can also be genetically male. This is not dragging anyone into anything. It’s a simple statement of fact which needs to be acknowledged.
It is incredibly hurtful to women with CAIS to call them men. They are female.

I am angry because people are so mean and ignorant and offensive and it’s so completely unnecessary.

@ILoveJamaica

I just feel we may get to a point where if you're introduced to a woman or man, how do you know if they're trans, unless they tell you

Really?

It’s usually pretty obvious

@Waitwhat23 thank you, learn something new everyday! I am not transphobic people can be whatever they want to but until today I genuinely would not know what they were on about if they described me as a cis women....Id probably think I look a bit rough or something as sounds a bit grim to me haha

[quote herecomesthsun]@Bizawit

I did not say that "cis" should never be used.

(Although I would agree with PP that the derivation from Latin is a bit lame)

I said that quite a few women find it offensive (see thread, passim)

Women who do not find it offensive can of course choose to label themselves that way, it's a free country.

I am rather older than the usage "cis" and I would like to go on being called a woman. It seems like a sensible term, and it is generally clear ti most people, in most settings, exactly what is being referred to.

Given that a lot of women don't like being called "cis", however, it might be more respectful of women's feelings for it not to be used, unless it is clear that your audience is enthusiastic about the term?[/quote]
natus women the? Born women using natus from Latin. 😅

Still agree we are women, but it seems our word is being taken. We can fight for it, but who knows how that will end up.

natal women has been used before

though I think just " women" will do

it is you know one of the first words you learn in most languages

just...basic

@herecomesthsun

natal women has been used before

though I think just " women" will do

it is you know one of the first words you learn in most languages

just...basic

Yeah, sounded familiar. 😕