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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

More than one “woman” a week prosecuted for rape?!?!

492 replies

Cwenthryth · 27/09/2021 23:07

I just saw this on Twitter

twitter.com/profalices/status/1442415750497509380?s=21

Between 2012 and 2018, 436 individuals prosecuted for rape in England and Wales were recorded as women.
www.parliament.scot/chamber-and-committees/committees/current-and-previous-committees/session-6-citizen-participation-and-public-petitions-committee/correspondence/2021/pe1876_h-professor-alice-sullivan-submission-of-27-august-2021

I’m shocked at this statistic. Yes, a small proportion of these may be women charged with rape by joint enterprise. Prof Sullivan posted on Twitter she has requested to separate out those cases. But, as under the law in England and Wales, rape is a crime committed with a penis….. so these (alleged) rapists are “bodies with penises” being recorded as women in crime stats. So transwomen, right? So what does this mean….436 (alleged) transwomen rapists in 6 years? That is more than one a week. In England & Wales.

Have I misunderstood that? I’m really shocked.

OP posts:
HoardingSamphireSaurus · 28/10/2021 08:17

Ooh! So much happened so late at night!!

But if I can help the now flounced, if you are still monitoring reading Rob this is were you made your mistake

its posting about how trans women are only pretending to be women so they can rape men .

In hindsight you obviously meant women, but that's not what you said.

And what many of us said in response, with links to the court cases of specific men who had done so, was that some rapists were doing exactly that. Choosing to transition after arrest and/or sentencing. That's men and the MoJ have some stats to show this is true and have even made a policy statement on the matter - which was being contested in law at the time.

If you don't think that it is an incredible and unbelievable state of affairs, that men convicted of sex crimes can say they are transitioning and be sent to the female state then you are more hard of head than I could have imagined.

And we don't regard transwomen as men, they are men. Male in every single cell of their bodies, retaining most of the male socialisation they have experienced in their lives, committing the same kinds of illegal acts in the same manner and at the same rate as every other man.

The difference is that we don't thik they are transwomen, we think they are rapists. You seem to simultaneously need them to be transwmen, accepted as women, and for them not to exist. And we see that a lot in those who need to shout that transwomen are actually women.

And you did post a threat - a daft one, but your language, the phrases you chose were aggressive and promising of real life violence - say that in real life and see what happens - if you cannot see the implicit threat in that then you sit comfortably alongside the sword wielding, death threatening TRAs of Twatter. As has been said, we only have ypur words to kow you by. And your words are implacable, rude and threatening!

And, just so you know, there is a part of Mumsnet called Flouncers Corner - many use it to announce their departure Smile

Helleofabore · 28/10/2021 08:33

Just leaving this here because it is quite relevant and from Cwenthryth other thread on women in prison.

twitter.com/bindelj/status/1453440985019654147?s=20

This vibe seems to resonate with posts on this thread. Along with

REPENT MOTHERFUCKER!!!!

as mentioned upthread.

Helleofabore · 28/10/2021 08:34

But seriously, just in case anyone missed this.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4386315-WPUK-A-Woman-s-Place-is-NOT-in-prison

I am keen to see the videos from last night.

PurgatoryOfPotholes · 28/10/2021 08:55

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

HoardingSamphireSaurus · 28/10/2021 08:58

Ah yes! Helen, Mimmymum. The gift that keeps on giving.

PurgatoryOfPotholes · 28/10/2021 08:59

@ErrolTheDragon

you know you're called Prosecco Stormfront, right? That's your nickname

Ah... the one coined by the 'Cis' woman who spectacularly unsuccessfully took a transwoman to court for alleged transphobia?

And the one who got upset over rapists having their sex accurately recorded.

Looks like she doesn't think it was a fat fingers clerical error.

More than one “woman” a week prosecuted for rape?!?!
More than one “woman” a week prosecuted for rape?!?!
HoardingSamphireSaurus · 28/10/2021 09:04

Fat fingers are what I have. Why my posts are littered with literals and mispers.

I have fat, arthritic fingers and don't always proof read as well as I could.

At work, where I type a lot, I double and triple check. That's called being professional!

Stats aren't messed up like that by 'fat fingers' -as others have explained upthread. It's just insulting to even try and suggest that as a reaosnable explanation. But then again, as insults go,... it's all par for the TRA course!

Datun · 28/10/2021 09:07

Oh for heaven's sake. The prison service themselves said that men were pretending to be women in order to get an easier ride in a women's prison, or access more victims.

And of course men aren't women, at all. I wouldn't use the word pretending as it indicates a certain nefarious intent. But saying they are women doesn't alter the fact that they're not.

And yes, I'm sure robin doesn't realise that they are just the latest in a long, long line of posters who all go through exactly the same predictable pattern.

Fondly imagining that they can just tell the women they're wrong, and that will be that. Perhaps Robin is used to doing that in real life. But when it doesn't work, the aggression starts. I've been gentle with you up till now? What the fuck is that? Consequences? Your posts are criminal?

Robin might want to reflect on the fact that it's Robin who can't keep within the guidelines.

Honestly. No wonder Robin comes on here to try and shut women down with Fat Fingers Theory.

AlfonsoTheUnrepetant · 28/10/2021 09:08

I make typos because I (1) am dyslexic and (2) don't always check my posts in Preview.

merrymouse · 28/10/2021 09:10

Just as an aside, she is also confused about human rights.

There is an absolute right not to be tortured. There is no right to have an identity officially recognised. There is only a qualified right to privacy which is the basis of the GRA. The GRA doesn’t cover people who don’t have a GRC.

AlfonsoTheUnrepetant · 28/10/2021 09:11

Robin's comment about "fat fingers" is a typical TRA of stealing someone's narrative: remember when JK Rowling's GC tweet was blamed on "fat fingers".

Poor TRAs with their inability to develop their own excuses, rationales, scenarios etc and their coopting of something someone else has already done.

Helleofabore · 28/10/2021 09:14

@Wildfart

I'm flattered but I assure you I'm definitely not a barrister or solicitor or anything to do with the legal profession.

Don't be flattered, it was a mistaken identity and you seem to have missed how bad I thought you were.

Grin

I love the vipers of FWR.

RufustheBadgeringReindeer · 28/10/2021 09:18

There was whining going on but it wasn’t coming from helleofabore

RufustheBadgeringReindeer · 28/10/2021 09:19

I honestly thought the thread would be gone this morning

BatmansBat · 28/10/2021 09:33

I don’t even like Prosecco Sad.

Gin on the other hand…or red wine

Helleofabore · 28/10/2021 09:35

I am partial to Wine…. Heads over to wherever the blue stocking is hanging.

ArabellaScott · 28/10/2021 09:50

Damn, I stopped clapping. Sorry. Got distracted, fell asleep. Has anyone disappeared?

NCBlossom · 28/10/2021 10:00

I haven’t looked at the data. But the strongest argument for a fudging of sex data is if there is a significant difference before and after a coding change or sex data recording change. These need to be matched carefully on a timeline to see what is really going on.

However it is depressing as data is supposed to serve a purpose, and be very clear, otherwise it serves no purpose.

This would be good to send to More or Less on BBC radio 4. They are excellent at taking confusing data and unpicking it. We probably need to interview the right people in order to get to the bottom of this and the programme could do that.

Cailleach1 · 28/10/2021 10:05

Yes, it is basically just a headcount of a mixed sex estate if they don't record sex accurately. Why would they do that, I wonder?

Helleofabore · 28/10/2021 10:10

When the numbers are so small it shows up even more so during tracking of these cases to see who they are.

Hopefully Prof Sullivan will work out the breakdown of the numbers to get a clearer picture.

Sophoclesthefox · 28/10/2021 10:10

I see Robins wilder excesses have been deleted. Ah well. Probably for the best, although to be honest, I found them laughable.

Maybe now we can get back to discussing how the data on those accused of rape has been collected, and if and when it changed.

My worry is that there wasn’t ever a clear statement that the data should be collected by self identified gender and not by sex (and it must surely be by self identified gender as I can’t imagine that such a large proportion of the ~5000 owners of GRCs could possibly be represented in these figures).

I have been watching the issue unfold for the last 8 years or so, and from what I know, I think it’s happened piecemeal. One force here, another force there, the central collation not making a distinction and carrying on as if they were still collecting sex based data, when in fact it had turned into a mix. By the time they realised it was happening, it was too late to unpick, and politically impossible to do without bringing the furies down upon them.

Cailleach1 · 28/10/2021 10:14

I think the post should have remained as an illustration of the paucity of argument and the inherent aggression displayed.

Bonsaibreaker · 28/10/2021 10:16

News Flash

Case against Marion Millar dropped!!!

Wildfart · 28/10/2021 10:17

Wiw

Wildfart · 28/10/2021 10:17

Wow!

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