Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

Original poster

Starker: Not only women have a cervix

314 replies

WildRunner · 26/09/2021 21:17

This has made me cross.

Labour conference: Not right to say only women have a cervix, says Starmer www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-58698406

I'm about to go for my smear test. Any man who feels like a woman is welcome to have a speculum inserted into his non-existent cervix - as long as it isn't at the expense of appointments for biological women.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
5
Feelingoktoday · 27/09/2021 09:08

'women, irrespective of how they identify'

But I’m not identifying!!! I am a women. My sex is a woman. I would never tick a box with that description.

WarriorN · 27/09/2021 09:11

I know, this does my head in.

I am. Said so in a stupid twitter argument last night and the tweeter then said, so are trans women 🙄

I see it from a public health perspective where I don't want to see vulnerable children and teen girls missing vital care because they're giving them selves trendy identities and labels.

For those who don't really get all this it's also a way in to discuss the big safeguarding issues.

WarriorN · 27/09/2021 09:12

Women, which includes trans men...

That's super inclusive.

ErrolTheDragon · 27/09/2021 09:13

There are other forms of wording, e.g. 'women, including transmen' or 'women, irrespective of how they identify'

The first is unambiguous bit likely to be considered unacceptable to reality deniers. The second would be interpreted rationally by most people as 'all females' but as 'women, transwomen and pips Bunce on a Pippa day' by the genderists.

WarriorN · 27/09/2021 09:14

Oh yeah forgot about pip.

Ffs.

WarriorN · 27/09/2021 09:16

I'm calling Labour the humpty dumpty party from now on.

Deliriumoftheendless · 27/09/2021 09:17

@CuriousaboutSamphire

Why does it matter that you don't understand how somebody feels something. Just accept that they feel it, especially when it doesn't affect you any any way.

I know I am late but @ozzyteabiscuit could you explain why, when women tell you they feel something, you just dismiss it?

Is it that the feelings of wmen just don't matter?

That when they see something being imposed upon them they must just silently accept it?

Being able to self identify??
Sexual harrassment
Rape?

Exactly.

“Accept how people feel, but I will not accept how you feel and I will be actively critical of the right for you to do that” seems to be the order of the day.

CuriousaboutSamphire · 27/09/2021 09:27

@Feelingoktoday

'women, irrespective of how they identify'

But I’m not identifying!!! I am a women. My sex is a woman. I would never tick a box with that description.

I usually look for the nearest open text box in any survey to write a short essay on that topic! And have sent a paper form back with an accompanying letter stapled to it.
arield · 27/09/2021 09:30

@ozzyteabiscuit

A trans man is a male who was born female so may have a vagina and a cervix and therefore still need a cervical exam.
A transman is literally not male.
stairway · 27/09/2021 09:50

Personally I find the word woman offensive, please just call me a cunt instead.

Thelnebriati · 27/09/2021 09:54

@ozzyteabiscuit

They're not suggesting transgender women who don't have a cervix go and have a smear test. That would be ridiculous. You seem to have misunderstood. They suggest merely saying 'individuals with a cervix' so as not to alienate transgender men who also have a cervix and therefore need to have cervical exams for their own safety. They're not taking away appointments from women just suggesting a change in the language used to be inclusive.
Its not us that's misunderstood; 'Woman' and 'Man' are sex classes, not value judgements. However you identify, your sex does not change.
MoonlightApple · 27/09/2021 10:03

Starker is a wet lettuce. Does he call his mother a person with a cervix?

Mumguilt12 · 27/09/2021 10:05

He has no clue about the difference between sex and gender.

We are talking a teeny amount of people that were born with a cervix that now identify as men. What percentage?

I’ve honestly had enough of this stupid planet. What’s the answer? Maybe so called “cis” women should stop having babies and leave it up to the men and other people. If other people also have wombs etc then let’s leave reproduction to them.

Also another thing I’ve seen on Twitter is people getting mixed up with “only” and “all”…

Only women have cervix…. That didn’t say “all”

Of course women that have had surgery to remove their cervix are still women.

Ekofisk · 27/09/2021 10:06

Going to be talking about this on BBC Woman's Hour now - it's Emma Barnett presenting.

RufustheBadgeringReindeer · 27/09/2021 10:08

@Ereshkigalangcleg

Worth noting that the evidence of violence by trans women in women's spaces is far less than the evidence of violence against trans women in men's spaces.

Yes, you're absolutely right @ozzyteabiscuit.

I'm not sure they are. Citation please.

Yes id quite like some evidence either way
Shedbuilder · 27/09/2021 10:09

I'm not remotely alienated by the term 'individuals with a cervix' because I am an individual with a cervix. It's inclusive.

Inclusivity is used as a weapon to destroy lesbian and women-only spaces. Inclusivity is used as an argument to coerce lesbians into sleeping with transwomen. The demand for inclusivity has destroyed women-only and lesbian-only space. Inclusivity is misogynistic.

It took a while because most of us here are reasonable progressive people. But we finally cottoned on to the fact that 'inclusivity' is dangerous to women and girls.

HelloMissus · 27/09/2021 10:09

Why don’t they just say women and trans men?
Or women and trans people?

Why get rid of the vast vast majority of folk with a cervix?

DottyHarmer · 27/09/2021 10:18

I agree with @WarriorN - this could be dangerous as a good few women wouldn’t understand they were being called for a smear test, say, if it was a call to “people with a cervix” .

Perhaps this will extend to having to invite everyone for a smear test so as not to offend anyone. I can’t imagine fil, say, knowing whether he had a cervix or not.

Ekofisk · 27/09/2021 10:27

@Ekofisk

Going to be talking about this on BBC Woman's Hour now - it's Emma Barnett presenting.
Emma Barnett quizzing the Labour Scottish shadow minister on Starmer's comments - well worth a listen.
Bollindger · 27/09/2021 10:41

Maybe they should write biological females, who need a test...

Abhannmor · 27/09/2021 10:43

If you can look me in the eye and say you cannot be absolutely certain which of your parents impregnated the other , of course I will respect your position. But I'm not going to vote for you.

Gmom · 27/09/2021 10:43

Someone above has said "Why are people so threatened by inclusivity. It does not affect you at all."

This is naive. Re-defining the term "woman" such that it no longer correlates to female sex characteristics or avoiding the word "woman" altogether affects all women.

LizzieSiddal · 27/09/2021 10:50

Emma Barnett on Women's Hour was very good. She also spoke to Helen Lewis, who was brilliant on this. It’s the first 15 minutes of Women’s Hour.

ArabellaScott · 27/09/2021 10:59

www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/live:bbc_radio_fourfm

10.02 here, on Raynor's 'scum' comments and subsequently, I expect, Starmer - listening now!

CuriousaboutSamphire · 27/09/2021 11:11

@Bollindger

Maybe they should write biological females, who need a test...
The idea is to make services based on biology simple ti understand for people owth liitedliteracy, different first language.

Women need cervical screening

Some women will not, most will know they do not, nobody loses out of some who do not enquire.

No man will. So why make the service less accessible placating the hurt feelings of thoe men who want to have one?