Have we stepped through the looking glass?

[MordenLarch]

For some reason, despite all the other rubbish that gets thrown at us daily, I can’t quite believe the leader of the opposition has today said that it’s wrong to say only women have cervixes.

It feels like we’ve completely broken free of reality. How can he actually say those words? There’s no way he believes them.

I’m a lifelong Labour/Green voter. Now I hope they’re finished forever.

Yes you sort of feel sometimes that gender ideology was invented by the Russians in order to destabilise the west and they're winning.

I feel the same way, like I am watching society being dismantled by an enthusiastic mob. There isn't a single political party, government department, charity or institution that hasn't gone along with it.

The Judean People's Front will not be silenced:

Jeremy Corbyn was heckled by his own brother at a climate change event yesterday, after organisers were forced to intervene and eject a protester.

The former Labour leader was speaking on a panel at The World Transformed, a hard-left festival in Brighton taking place at the same time as the Labour Party’s annual conference.

His brother Piers is a climate change denier and has previously clashed with him over coronavirus and climate policy.

During the event, a protester stood up and began to shout at the panel, before attempting to break through a barrier and onto the stage.

He was ejected by security guards.

Piers Corbyn then stood up to ask a question, but organisers said they would only take interventions from women and people of colour in the audience.

Piers Corbyn leads an anti-vaccine protest outside the Labour Party annual conference in Brighton on September 25

He then began to shout at his brother, and was asked to sit down by a meeting organiser.

One panellist shouted back to him: “You need to ask yourself what level of entitlement you think you have over this space.

“You need to sit down and show some goddamn respect.”

Addressing the audience, she added: “We need to carry on comrades, because we have a massive task ahead of us.”

After the event, Mr Corbyn handed out leaflets that read: “Man-made climate change does not exist!”

Asked whether he thought his brother would be upset that he had disrupted the event, he replied: “I don’t care”.

www.msn.com/en-gb/entertainment/music/climate-change-denier-piers-corbyn-heckles-his-brother-at-rowdy-hard-left-event/ar-AAOQqeC?ocid=winp1taskbar

I remember people saying the same thing about two men getting married

@Gncq

Yes you sort of feel sometimes that gender ideology was invented by the Russians in order to destabilise the west and they're winning.

I don't think it was invented by the Russians, but I daresay they have been very pleased at the effects of it.

Putin is pushing in the opposite direction with his "Traditional Values" laws, including the one that allows husbands to hit their wives provided they don't leave bruises.

@Velvetoverground

I remember people saying the same thing about two men getting married

Yeah, same sex marriage vs the complete denial of biological reality and erosion of women’s rights. That’s the same!

I think Starmer will have lost Labour a lot of voters today. I'm really disappointed in him.

But progressives could still have a home in the Green Party. It just depends on the results of the leadership election.

Yeah, same sex marriage vs the complete denial of biological reality and erosion of women’s rights. That’s the same!

It's true though, except even more people were outraged, this time it's just a few.

“I’m a lifelong Labour/Green voter. Now I hope they’re finished forever.”

I certainly don’t hope they’re finished for ever. Me and the average Conservative have fundamental differences of opinion on most things, so unless one of us had an epiphany I couldn’t vote for them either.

I just want Labour and the Greens to come to their senses on this issue. I don’t want to be politically homeless and I don’t want the UK to be a one party state.

@Gncq

Yes you sort of feel sometimes that gender ideology was invented by the Russians in order to destabilise the west and they're winning.

I said this about three years ago and the idea was pooh-poohed and dismissed as being over dramatic but I’m becoming increasingly convinced it’s true.

@Velvetoverground

Yeah, same sex marriage vs the complete denial of biological reality and erosion of women’s rights. That’s the same!

It's true though, except even more people were outraged, this time it's just a few.

Um, no. By any measure you’re wrong. No one believes in this. They’re just trying to be “kind”

It's true though, except even more people were outraged, this time it's just a few.

Opposing marriage between 2 consenting adults which impinges on no-one else, is not remotely the same as objecting to the erosion of women's rights

@Velvetoverground

I remember people saying the same thing about two men getting married

Did they say that one of them might have a cervix?

@Gncq

Yes you sort of feel sometimes that gender ideology was invented by the Russians in order to destabilise the west and they're winning.

Actually, it wasn’t 3 years ago it was last year This will be outing, but this was it:

I had the thought that it might be a long game from countries on the other side of the world where they definitely do not allow this sort of thing to happen to their own children. Rates of this happening are rapidly rising all the time, especially in the last few years, and we’re finding out that children being pumped full of hormones or drugs, even if they change their mind and stop, are finding themselves, both male and female, unable to have any children, not to also mention the psychological damage it causes. And I wondered whether it was all part of a long game.

I know it sounds far fetched and stupid but if people believe other countries can influence politics for their own gain, why wouldn’t they be open to funding this type of thing also to decrease a generation of children in their rivals countries? I don’t know, it’s probably just me, but from the amount of stuff that has come out I wouldn’t be surprised if it was true.

"But progressives could still have a home in the Green Party. It just depends on the results of the leadership election."

Unfortunately I'm in Scotland and will never vote for Patrick Harvie.

I don't think that the conspiracy theories are that useful because they don't explain the thing that needs explaining.

The thing that blows my mind is how many normally sane people and organisations are going along with mad things. The Russians didn't make them do it - they don't control Amnesty, and all the other ngos, and the corporations, and the Labour Party, and half my friends. They might well have seeded the Internet with bollocks, but that doesn't explain why people fell for it, which is the bit that needs explaining.

I can't link for some reason but can never vote for them after they opposed allowing rape victims to choose an examiner of their own sex.

@AnotherLass

I don't think that the conspiracy theories are that useful because they don't explain the thing that needs explaining.

The thing that blows my mind is how many normally sane people and organisations are going along with mad things. The Russians didn't make them do it - they don't control Amnesty, and all the other ngos, and the corporations, and the Labour Party, and half my friends. They might well have seeded the Internet with bollocks, but that doesn't explain why people fell for it, which is the bit that needs explaining.

Maybe, just maybe it's not the terrible thing people of MN and the Daily Mail think it all is and Am watt, your friends etc are perfectly okay in thinking the way they do

Amnesty

@Velvetoverground

I remember people saying the same thing about two men getting married

Do you mean people with penises?

@AnotherLass

I don't think that the conspiracy theories are that useful because they don't explain the thing that needs explaining.

The thing that blows my mind is how many normally sane people and organisations are going along with mad things. The Russians didn't make them do it - they don't control Amnesty, and all the other ngos, and the corporations, and the Labour Party, and half my friends. They might well have seeded the Internet with bollocks, but that doesn't explain why people fell for it, which is the bit that needs explaining.

This is the bit I don't understand. Why are people, who on most other topics can provide a rational argument for their views, just going along with irrational, unscientific nonsense?

Keir Starmer this morning could have said 'of course it's not transphobic to say that only women have a cervix'. Instead he chose to squirm and try to avoid answering the question altogether because he knows that he's supporting an irrational belief system. It just made him look ridiculous.

They know it's irrational. They don't believe, but they still go along with it. Why?

I remember people saying the same thing about two men getting married

Gay men didn't demand that everyone deny reality, they asked that people acknowledged reality, that men can fall in love with men. Gay men didn't dehumanise, abuse and shit all over women to win the right to marry their partners.

What's happening right now is the complete opposite. Demanding we all play along with reality deniers, the leader of the labour party telling women we mustn't speak the truth, mangling the language we use for ourselves, locking women up with convicted rapists because of an ideology.

Nothing like the fight for same sex marriage at all, and saying it is is a pathetic attempt at shaming women into shutting up. Not going to work.

Do you mean people with penises?

Velvet might mean bodies with vaginas. Or even one body with a vagina and one with a penis.

It's so hard to tell these days. What do you mean by 'men' velvet?

@Velvetoverground

I remember people saying the same thing about two men getting married

Eh no, it's not the same thing at all. This is not a gay rights issue, it really isn't. If you think it is, you're not looking very hard.

Gay people never demanded that others ignore biological reality, never demanded access to spaces they didn't belong. they wanted to be free from discrimination in the workplace and by service providers, and free to marry who they choose. All things that trans people are also covered by in the Equality Act.

What the extreme activists are also demanding goes far beyond human rights, into the territory of ridiculousness. Let's have a look shall we -

Demanding that men can become women just because they say so, and gain full access to women's spaces, including prisons and rape crisis centres.
Telling lesbians that if they don't accept male people as sexual partners they are hateful and bigoted.
Demanding that children be given puberty blockers and surgery before the age of consent.
Demanding that women have no place left to meet without men present, or even to be able to discuss our bodies and biology without censoring it for the feelings of fragile men.

Not the same thing at all. How insulting.