Labour have committed to single sex spaces

[flumpetto]

Excluding trans

This is a step in the right direction at long last....

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/keir-starmer-trans-women-labour-b1924832.html

Kier Starmer is too weak to see this through. His party will not stand for it and the case by case situation that Jean Hatchet thinks he means makes no sense.

Even if in the next GE Labour were voted in, I don’t think he’d last as leader. He doesn’t have the stomach to be a PM. So where would that lead us? Probably right back to today. Except this time, the TRA’s would be having a field day.

So thanks, but no thanks. I held my nose over women’s rights at the last GE and voted Labour. Not again. Boris is an idiot. The country is in a mess. Who to vote for now? Maybe I just won’t bother. How sad.

I'm sure you could go for more alliteration there, Antinerak. It's just not scanning very well, you've got too many 'Karens' in and it's lacking oomph at the end.

Also doesn't make any sense, of course.

SpindleWorld.

I agree.

@AnyFucker

Keir is an obvious transphobic tory twat so of course he agrees with the touchy Karens who are scared of women more feminine than them. Ah well, the Karens' fragile femininity will never leave, but he certainly will.

Is that you, India

😂😂

Keir is an obvious transphobic tory twat so of course he agrees with the touchy Karens who are scared of women more feminine than them. Ah well, the Karens' fragile femininity will never leave, but he certainly will

I always love it when gender ideologists make their women-hating misogyny so clear. They make our point for us

"the Karens' fragile femininity" is somewhat ironic.

Even if in the next GE Labour were voted in...

Psephologically if not mathematically impossible. The only way KS gets to be PM in 2024 is at the head of a Lab-Lib-Nat-Green-Plaid-Pasileyite-Raving Loony Coalition.

Interesting! If he really makes a stand here I might no longer be politically homeless anymore, and also have my single sex spaces back- win win!

Keir is…Karens who are scared of women more feminine than them. Ah well, the Karens' fragile femininity…

I'm somewhat entertained by the emphasis on this theme from a poster who seems to be hoping that adopting the backwards version of it as a user name confers special insights.

It's like when people used to play records backwards for the hidden satanic messages. misty-eyed

@Ritasueandbobtoo9

Women’s only spaces means nothing when your Labour Senedd Member thinks Trans women ARE actually women.

No they aren’t Eluned Morgan.

Seriously? She's the Health Minister. What hope is there for us here in Wales?

I've never heard such rubbish and I don't believe she truly believes what she's saying either. If she can lie about whether someone of one sex can become another why should we trust Eluned Morgan, or any other sheep of a politician, about anything else?

the Karens' fragile femininity…

I am going to suggest it to the band. I am sure that The Karens will think that 'Fragile Femininity' would be a bloody excellent song.

@Helleofabore

the Karens' fragile femininity…

I am going to suggest it to the band. I am sure that The Karens will think that 'Fragile Femininity' would be a bloody excellent song.

I thought that - the more 'on message with other forms of commentary' version would have been 'feminine fragility' but 'fragile femininity' is begging for a song and for a rose to be named for it.

the point for a political party is to find a compromise that can be accepted by extremists.

Surely not. That just pulls the party further and further into the extremists' direction, usually away from what any voter wants.

Wasn't "Fragile Femininity" the disappointing fourth album by Tori Amos?

Jaysmith, it's also a rare Eminem B-side.

@AnyFucker

Keir is an obvious transphobic tory twat so of course he agrees with the touchy Karens who are scared of women more feminine than them. Ah well, the Karens' fragile femininity will never leave, but he certainly will.

Is that you, India

😂

I've become horrified at the left. I'd never realised before how quick they are to dehumanise the right - all the anti Tory rhetoric was so much white noise to me. Now, I think it's appalling and unacceptable. I want adult discussion, debate, evidence-based arguments, and a genuinely respectful attitude

Shout if anyone forms a political party that embodies any of these things, would you?

Yes to the first paragraph. I started thinking this when there was the whole milk shaking business. I’ve not the slightest bit of time for Farage, but I think a basic of civilised society is being able to go about your business without anyone throwing comestibles at you.

I was completely shocked at the amount of people on my Facebook who endorsed it, and recommended any number of other right wingers who needed similar.

Not ok! Never ok. We’ve lost the knack of holding opposing views without dehumanising people. Isn’t that right, @Antinerak?

To your second para- the SDP do this.

“And we also continue to support the implementation of the Equality Act, including the single-sex exemption which allows the provision of women-only spaces. This law rightly assumes the inclusion of trans women, except in specific circumstances.”

Quote from KS. So his 'support for women only spaces' means nothing at all except for weasel words.

I see nothing to be optimistic about here.

Purporting to support the EA whilst simultaneously proposing to bring in self Id is actually reducing the effectiveness of the former at a time it's already buckling (collapsed?) under the pressure of institutional capture.

Look at where we are now - men in refuges, prisons, changing rooms etc.

The EA isn't being upheld as is because it's not fit for purpose and is compromised by the GRA that did not anticipate the swell of the numbers of people who fall under the Stonewall definition of Trans, plus institutions being mislead about protected characteristics.

Remember you can't even ask if someone has a GRC so in that sense it provides no gateway of protection and the default is that someone should be treated as the sex they claim to be.

Labour supporting the EA doesn't matter if it continues to support the institutional capture that is utterly pervasive.

who are scared of women more feminine than them

This claim that we're threatened by transwomen's femininity keeps coming up. Why?

There are lots of women more feminine than me from Audrey Hepburn to Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, through all the nameless models who adorn every billboard. I don't feel scared of them, so why would I feel scared of any transwoman?

What is the femininity of Jane Fae, Alex Drummond or Charlotte Clymer going to do to me? What worries me is the physical intimidation factor of their bodies in a confined space on women who have already been subjected to sexual violence.

It's an odd point, isn't it, Pots?

scared of women more feminine than them

My femininity varies. It's not generally speaking a fixed or 'innate' thing, it depends on mood. Because 'femininity' is gender - it's just a collection of arbitrary behaviours. I am not scared of feminine women, nor of feminine males, for that matter.

Will always be a woman, though. From before birth to until every cell of my bones has decayed.

• I remember the milkshakes, Soph, and me saying 'but this is assault' and various lefty friends laughing at me. Couldn't seem to see the problem, even when I pointed out that things like acid attacks are a very good reason not to EVER throw any kind of liquid over people.

It seems all the risks have been aired, I don't think my mother/sister/wife/daughter are likely to have any more confidence in a good outcome. Weasel words and 'Angels on Pins' to come from the barrister.

Scotland: If it should be that Labour would ditch or make TRA stuff stricter it will only make the learned FM dig in more. Scotland MUST be different to England.

Nah I dont believe it. Not when people like RLB are still pushing that womens place uk are transphobic. The whole lot have to go OR start singing from the same hymn sheet before I come back, which in reality they won't.

I have always felt that Labour are playing the very long game., they are taking the hits now as we have a generation of young kids that believe you can magically change sex when you want. A generation of ticktock users with video after video of young girls and boys transitioning and look 'fit' or 'sexy' after filter upon filter is applied to them.

I'm even thinking about buying shares in pharmaceuticals as its about to sky rocket in the next few years. I'd love to find out if and Big Pharma have donated to Labour, as one big Pharma company just gave the Lib Dems 1.5 mil. So really im not surprised by the Lib Dems stance.

The trouble is though that you can sell this to a kid with low life experience. They won't stay kids, and they will grow up and many of them who are female will then experience the systemic barriers to access and equality and say why don't I matter like someone who was born male does?

These kids - very sadly - are going to grow up to need rape crisis centres, experience assaults that leave them with trauma, have medical needs that they want a same sex practitioner for for all sorts of reasons, have faiths and cultures and disabilities that mean they can't use mixed sex spaces...... ? Like every generation of female people before them.

The reality and the disadvantage of being biologically female cannot be vanished. It really can't. Nor is it reasonable to expect half the human race to just not mention their needs and disadvantage and to accept exclusion and inequality to benefit the other half.

It is going to dawn on young girls like it dawned on so many women here - being born female does not make me everyone's mum. It does not mean I meet everyone else's needs before my own. It does not make me less important than others, it does not make my voice and experiences matter less, I am not born to be a service animal to real humans. And that anger is going to come to them too.