Labour have committed to single sex spaces

[flumpetto]

Excluding trans

This is a step in the right direction at long last....

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/keir-starmer-trans-women-labour-b1924832.html

person by person

@averylongtimeago

It's only "some" spaces "when justified". They haven't won my vote back yet.

Yes, it doesn't say much does it really (imo)

And how is it decided & who decides?

What does she think 'female' means exactly?

I've seen several recent items that indicate there is a targeted lobbying of the dictionaries to change the meaning of this and other words. They're doing this by creating and then citing examples of contemporary usage to make the case to have the dictionary definition changed.

If we think we have problems now (as outlined so well by Naomi Cunningham) think of what happens when the language and the logical proofs that flow from them are changed.

legalfeminist.org.uk/2021/09/21/schrodingers-pcp/

Re trauma passports, yes, just that. Youth hostels routinely put transwomen into female spaces. Any exemptions for traumatised women have to be individually negotiated.

Euurgh. I hate this idea. I used to use hostels a lot, even mixed ones until I was assualted in a mixed dorm. I now want to use only-female dorms but why should I have to disclose this? What a way to start a holiday by reliving past traumas....

It's likely they will backtrack unfortunately

@Cwenthryth

Personally, I would favour altering the GRA so that you can get documents with your new gender identity far more easily, but where that gender identity is treated differently from your immutable biological and legal sex. Hmm….I think I see where you’re coming from on that (go ahead and get a certificate that officially recognises whatever gender you want, makes no difference to anyone else as it’s not affecting your legal sex). But how would that work really? The genderists believe that the sex markers on official documents are gender markers and want them to document their self-identified gender. They are not going to accept removing their current ability to legally change those documents - you can already change your passport and driving licence by effectively self-ID, it is only the birth certificate that requires the person to go through the GRC process. You can already easily change most documents. The genie is already out of the bottle.

because its a starting point for boundaries. Birth certificate is a legal document and make it so that you need to produce it to get into a single sex service - refuge, prison, sport, shortlist.

then as someone said earlier - offer third spaces for changing rooms/toilets etc - or single closed cubicles, as again those are single SEX, not gender

if companies want to do stuff by gender then they can crack on, but I suspect that once the light is shone on it, many women would simply avoid

then allow women to challenge people in those spaces without the fear of 'phobia / hate crimes.

its a pushback

No way near enough to get my vote. He is still on the fence. Coward.

@SpindleWorld

person by person

when did they change it to person by person ? Didnt it used to be service by service - decided round whether women for whom the service was intended would be likely to access it or not if a man was there

@Highwind

Yeah...no.

Does his definition of “woman” include males with GRC’s? If it does and he is still promising to make obtaining a GRC easier.... then I am sorry but he is no friend of womankind.

This

I want Starmer to absolutely, definitively confirm that, @NettleTea - service by service (and I'd be looking at him to name types of service, given his position), and not person by person.

If 'case by case' means 'person by person' then he can fuck off with his twaddle. This is about safeguarding services.

I don't like to think he's deliberately dicking around with law; but not much surprises me any more.

Women’s only spaces means nothing when your Labour Senedd Member thinks Trans women ARE actually women.

No they aren’t Eluned Morgan.

I absolutely loathe the Inedependent, but that headline is an absolute gift - TRAs in their desperation to clarify what is actually meant in that headline about Labour's position are having to admit that there are single sex exemptions in the EA!

More and more sunlight every day!

Reported the rude attempt to derail discussion.

@OvaHere

On the party’s policy, he said: “Our position on this has not changed [from the 2019 manifesto].

“What we have said is that Labour would work to update the Gender Recognition Act to enable a process for gender identification.

“And we also continue to support the implementation of the Equality Act, including the single-sex exemption which allows the provision of women-only spaces.”

This just seems to be a rehash of the pre election 2019 situation where they commit to both self ID and single sex spaces. Which is a circle that cannot be squared. What they're also not saying is that their definition of the word woman still includes at least some men. So our version of single sex is unlikely to tally with Labour's.

I fear this is a nothingburger and just Party HQ trying to quash criticism over the treatment of Rosie Duffield whilst not committing to anything that makes real sense.

As ever I hope to be wrong. We'll see.

This. Definitely this.

@Antinerak

Keir is an obvious transphobic tory twat so of course he agrees with the touchy Karens who are scared of women more feminine than them. Ah well, the Karens' fragile femininity will never leave, but he certainly will.

😂😂😂

@Antinerak

Keir is an obvious transphobic tory twat so of course he agrees with the touchy Karens who are scared of women more feminine than them. Ah well, the Karens' fragile femininity will never leave, but he certainly will.

Please don't report this.

It's priceless

@Muminabun

He will win back more support for Labour than they will lose by doing this so it is a smart move, but for me the true colours have been shown. I voted Tory due to his issue as well as other considerations. I can’t see myself voting green, Lib Dem or Labour again as none recognise me and my daughters as a separate sex class, so that for me was a non starter, in terms of political representation in any meaningful way.

Yes, to be honest the ease with which all of these parties so casually threw women aside to appease a tiny section of the populace means I no longer have any respect for them. It speaks to me of deeply entrenched sexism, as well as a real weakness in their thinking systems, a huge lack of courage and conviction, and an utter inability to listen/debate/discuss in a grown up manner.

That's not what I need in a political party.

I've become horrified at the left. I'd never realised before how quick they are to dehumanise the right - all the anti Tory rhetoric was so much white noise to me. Now, I think it's appalling and unacceptable. I want adult discussion, debate, evidence-based arguments, and a genuinely respectful attitude.

Shout if anyone forms a political party that embodies any of these things, would you?

@Antinerak

Keir is an obvious transphobic tory twat so of course he agrees with the touchy Karens who are scared of women more feminine than them. Ah well, the Karens' fragile femininity will never leave, but he certainly will.

Oh, bless.

I don’t trust him at all. He will allow self ID which will permit trans women to enter safe spaces.

I am Karenicus! Well, for @Antinerakus anyway.

Such fun!

Keir is an obvious transphobic tory twat so of course he agrees with the touchy Karens who are scared of women more feminine than them. Ah well, the Karens' fragile femininity will never leave, but he certainly will.

Of course you think that.

Keir is an obvious transphobic tory twat so of course he agrees with the touchy Karens who are scared of women more feminine than them. Ah well, the Karens' fragile femininity will never leave, but he certainly will.

Is that you, India

🤣

Is that you, India

😂