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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

James Esses Case - Evidence-based therapy

306 replies

RoastChicory · 12/09/2021 11:53

There has been an update from James Esses, who was suspended from his psychotherapy course as he set up a petition to make sure therapists were allowed to explore issues with gender dysphoria patients and not simply affirm the patient’s self-diagnosis.

Shockingly, it appears that the U.K. psychotherapists association put pressure to expel James from the course. They are therefore also now part of the case. If James wins, this would set a very important message to similar associations.

Email copied below

Update on Expelled from my university course for holding gender critical views

Dear Supporters,

Thanks to the overwhelming support I received from my original crowdfunding, my lawyers have now been able to draft and lodge my claim. My lawyers are Akua Reindorf, who wrote the Reindorf review into the treatment by Essex University of its gender critical staff, and Peter Daly of Doyle Clayton Solicitors, who acted for Maya Forstater in the appeal that established gender critical beliefs such as mine as being protected from discrimination.

My claim is in the Employment Tribunal, because both of the Respondents provide workplace qualifications. These are litigated in the Employment Tribunal because of section 53 of the Equality Act 2010.

The First Respondent is Metanoia. The acts of discrimination I am litigating are set out in my original crowdfunding page.

The Second Respondent is UKCP, the United Kingdom Council for Psychotherapy. This is the main registration body for councillors and psychotherapists in the UK. These are not regulated professions, so they don’t have a regulator in the same way that Doctors have the General Medical Council, or solicitors have the Solicitors Regulation Authority. But UKCP is in many ways a quasi-regulator, because registration with the UKCP (or one other counterpart) is required in order to qualify formally as a counsellor or psychotherapist.

It has come to light in Subject Access Request responses that UKCP were far more involved in Metanoia’s actions towards me than I had previously realised. Metanoia were liaising with UKCP, who were putting pressure on Metanoia in how they dealt with me. My claim is therefore also against UKCP, on the basis that its actions instructed, caused or induced Metanoia’s discrimination against me, as well as those actions being discriminatory against me in their own right. As with Metanoia, I am litigating against UKCP on the basis that it is a qualifications body, but also on the basis that it is a Trade Association – both of these are within the Employment Tribunal’s jurisdiction under the Equality Act 2010.

This is, as far as I am aware, the first claim for gender critical belief discrimination brought against a registration body or quasi-regulator like UKCP. This is therefore an important case because it will have relevance for other regulators and other regulated professions.

OP posts:
Helleofabore · 12/09/2021 23:33

@anaily

With that logic your views of trans are transphobic.
What views are transphobic?
MonsignorMirth · 12/09/2021 23:36

@anaily

Are you going to campaign against Judaism to stop those in jail exploiting it? I appreciate the long thread above. I may have questions later on.
Are you... are you referring to a storyline on Orange is the New Black?

Or do you genuinely think Jews are a safeguarding risk?

anaily · 12/09/2021 23:39

You call it racist yet that's exactly what you do with trans people?

Someone telling me their religion, sexuality, gender, race is no safeguard risk.

Helleofabore · 12/09/2021 23:41

Same risk as someone being trans or non binary. 😐

To clarify again.

The risk is assessed on trans status. It is assessed on sex.

Sex. Not gender.

Hope that helps.

titchy · 12/09/2021 23:42

@anaily

You call it racist yet that's exactly what you do with trans people?

Someone telling me their religion, sexuality, gender, race is no safeguard risk.

Male people anaily, not trans people. Trans men - no risk because female. Trans women - risk because male.
anaily · 12/09/2021 23:42

Anyone can change their name, it's not unique to trans people. Adopted kids can get birth certificates changed. These things aren't unique to trans.

titchy · 12/09/2021 23:45

Why are you so obsessed with birth certificates? The thread is about appropriate health care for children. The debate more generally is about ensuring women can be kept safe.

Do you think we're worried about paper cuts or something?

MonsignorMirth · 12/09/2021 23:45

@anaily

Anyone can change their name, it's not unique to trans people. Adopted kids can get birth certificates changed. These things aren't unique to trans.
Well done! That's correct, we all agree and was never in question. Keep it up!
PickAChew · 12/09/2021 23:46

@anaily

GC philosophy is boys will be boys, girls will be girls. That any other combination is wrong and needs to be corrected. No deviation or anything.
Er, nope. Nice try.
Helleofabore · 12/09/2021 23:48

Someone telling me their religion, sexuality, gender, race is no safeguard risk.

Safeguarding is not assessed on religion, sexual orientation, or race.

If you are going to go into ‘sexuality’, please define what you mean. Do you also include those who are interested in paraphilia’s - all paraphilias????

It is sex that matters for safeguarding not gender. Please tell us why you think males who retain most of their physical advantages even with testosterone reduction should be given a special exemption for safeguarding?

You have not answered this. You keep trying to distract by mentioning race and religion.

Helleofabore · 12/09/2021 23:51

@anaily

Anyone can change their name, it's not unique to trans people. Adopted kids can get birth certificates changed. These things aren't unique to trans.
We didn’t say it was unique.

No one said it was unique.

However, the fact that sex offenders can change their name and now go undetected and even change their sex on a birth certificate means DBS checks cannot not ever be the ‘only’ safeguarding measure in place.

Blibbyblobby · 12/09/2021 23:51

@anaily

Running sports is mainly won by what race? It's certainly not white people. Is that justification for race segregation? Crime stats by race will also draw conclusions that can justify race segregation. Some things are just morally and ethically wrong to do.
Segregating by race is morally and ethically wrong when it's set up by the race in power to exclude those with less power from resources and opportunities.

Segregating by race is not morally and ethically wrong when it's set up by those with less power so they have the space to speak and be heard, learn, self define, support each other and create their own opportunities without being dominated (deliberately or simply thoughtlessly) by the group in power.

anaily · 12/09/2021 23:52

I agree this is going off topic, I'll refrain. Nice chatting, good night.

Datun · 12/09/2021 23:53

Someone telling me their religion, sexuality, gender, race is no safeguard risk.

If males are telling you they are female and wanting access to women, of course its a safeguarding risk, because it is the male status that makes them statistically more risky.

This isn't about individuals. Risk assessment is based on statistical analysis. Men present overwhelmingly more risk than women. Which is why we sex segregate in the first place.

Perhaps that is what you are stuck on? You don't like the facts?

Helleofabore · 12/09/2021 23:55

@anaily

I agree this is going off topic, I'll refrain. Nice chatting, good night.
Well, your continued attempts to deflect from answering the questions put to you, has kept this thread at the top of the page.
Waitwhat23 · 13/09/2021 00:07

So just to recap. On this thread alone, Anaily has been -
Transphobic
Racist
Anti semitic
and Misogynistic.

And has simply ignored questions they aren't able to answer.

Chloemol · 13/09/2021 01:31

@anaily

What evidence is there that trans identities can be fixed? That is the approach James is going for

Where’s the evidence please? As I have read it he is simply asking questions to confirm that the person in question does fully understand what’s happening to them, that they are a male in a female body/female in a male body, not just a blind automatic acceptance of what they say. That’s no different to what would happen to anyone else seeking medical help for something

You also dont understand GC

StrangeLookingParasite · 13/09/2021 01:52

@anaily

GC philosophy is boys will be boys, girls will be girls. That any other combination is wrong and needs to be corrected. No deviation or anything.
You very clearly have no idea what you're talking about.
Sophoclesthefox · 13/09/2021 07:34

Thank you, anally, for keeping this thread bumped, I wasn’t online yesterday and might have missed it. Having seen it, I was able to find James’ fundraiser and contribute Smile

This is a really important case. Those undermining it are stating that their position is that they’re happy for gender questioning children to have substandard care due to professionals being prevented from exploring any broader context of their issues.

I’m cringing at the shoddy misstatement of what the GC position is upthread 😬 deary me.

Deliriumoftheendless · 13/09/2021 07:44

I believe the reason prisoners were self identifying as Jewish was because they thought they got better meals. They were identifying as something they weren’t for preferential treatment.

There doesn’t seem too many safeguarding issues there, although Jewish people may be upset their belief system is being exploited.

When rapists can self identify into women’s prisons, well, that’s a whole different situation isn’t it?

GroggyLegs · 13/09/2021 08:15

I also got my trowel out for James having come across this thread last night.

Why anyone would prevent a child exploring complex feelings before making any life changing decisions is beyond me.
As a parent I see it as one of my responsibilities to keep my children's options open and try to encourage some critical thought.

Yesterdaysleftovers · 13/09/2021 10:11

Am getting my trowel out too. I would really like to see how the professional body is going to try to justify its behaviour.

Helleofabore · 13/09/2021 10:21

@anaily

No i can't, i can't provide black people commit less crime either, it doesn't mean they are also a safeguarding risk. Your rule can be applied to literally any group to make them to be dangerous.
For your comparator to work, you would need to provide statistics that women of colour commit sex crimes at a significantly higher rate than all females.

Otherwise your example is pointless and a distraction from the safeguarding argument. (And continues to show your lack of understanding).

Please stop using this tired trope stemming from racism and prejudice against religion. Comparators have to be the same sex to be useful, otherwise you are comparing oranges to small orange computed grapefruit.

I am sure it sounded great when a trans activist pointed it out with passion and emotion. But this is where your ethics and intention can be questioned. sadly we have seen these arguments weekly. And they are never ok to use.

IAmASpiderPlant · 13/09/2021 10:23

@anaily

The main stigma and mockery comes from GC people telling them to conform to gender stereotypes according to their anatomy. The reality is they are trans.
I've never once heard a gender critical person insist someone conform to their sex based gender stereotypes.

Rejecting such stereotypes and doing/being who you are regardless of your sex underpins GC ideas.

The problem GC people have is with the idea that, if you don't comform to sex based gender stereotypes you must be of the other sex or fall somewhere between the two and should have your body modified accordingly and society regard you as though that is a truth.

Hattie765 · 13/09/2021 11:08

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