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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

James Esses Case - Evidence-based therapy

306 replies

RoastChicory · 12/09/2021 11:53

There has been an update from James Esses, who was suspended from his psychotherapy course as he set up a petition to make sure therapists were allowed to explore issues with gender dysphoria patients and not simply affirm the patient’s self-diagnosis.

Shockingly, it appears that the U.K. psychotherapists association put pressure to expel James from the course. They are therefore also now part of the case. If James wins, this would set a very important message to similar associations.

Email copied below

Update on Expelled from my university course for holding gender critical views

Dear Supporters,

Thanks to the overwhelming support I received from my original crowdfunding, my lawyers have now been able to draft and lodge my claim. My lawyers are Akua Reindorf, who wrote the Reindorf review into the treatment by Essex University of its gender critical staff, and Peter Daly of Doyle Clayton Solicitors, who acted for Maya Forstater in the appeal that established gender critical beliefs such as mine as being protected from discrimination.

My claim is in the Employment Tribunal, because both of the Respondents provide workplace qualifications. These are litigated in the Employment Tribunal because of section 53 of the Equality Act 2010.

The First Respondent is Metanoia. The acts of discrimination I am litigating are set out in my original crowdfunding page.

The Second Respondent is UKCP, the United Kingdom Council for Psychotherapy. This is the main registration body for councillors and psychotherapists in the UK. These are not regulated professions, so they don’t have a regulator in the same way that Doctors have the General Medical Council, or solicitors have the Solicitors Regulation Authority. But UKCP is in many ways a quasi-regulator, because registration with the UKCP (or one other counterpart) is required in order to qualify formally as a counsellor or psychotherapist.

It has come to light in Subject Access Request responses that UKCP were far more involved in Metanoia’s actions towards me than I had previously realised. Metanoia were liaising with UKCP, who were putting pressure on Metanoia in how they dealt with me. My claim is therefore also against UKCP, on the basis that its actions instructed, caused or induced Metanoia’s discrimination against me, as well as those actions being discriminatory against me in their own right. As with Metanoia, I am litigating against UKCP on the basis that it is a qualifications body, but also on the basis that it is a Trade Association – both of these are within the Employment Tribunal’s jurisdiction under the Equality Act 2010.

This is, as far as I am aware, the first claim for gender critical belief discrimination brought against a registration body or quasi-regulator like UKCP. This is therefore an important case because it will have relevance for other regulators and other regulated professions.

OP posts:
anaily · 12/09/2021 22:02

To all the replies to me, if you go out and ask a bunch of random people you'll get my sort of questions, i get your main issues in life is what genitals people have and who is using the cubicle next to you, for the general public like me issue are when I'm going to eat next or paying rent and bills, i don't relate to your issues at all. I know lgbt people, some are in my extended family and some are friends, you portraying them as a threat is just absurd, those i know are the most loveliest people i know. Your description of them is at odds with me. I'm not saying you haven't met creepy people, I've met my fair share of them, however i don't go applying that to an entire group. I genuinely don't see how a birth certificate affects anyone's life, no one has explained it yet. So i may be missing something but no one is offering to explain or answer my questions. I'm inclined to listen to the minority group than those talking about that very group. I started looking into it after the pub thing where gc got kicked out, good people don't get kicked out for no good reason. I am allowed to hold my own opinions, although they are heavily frowned upon.

SpindleWhorl · 12/09/2021 22:07

So i may be missing something but no one is offering to explain or answer my questions.

Yes they are. Over and over again. On multiple threads, actually.

anaily · 12/09/2021 22:11

Links to a 30 page thread that has no explanation of how birth certificates are dangerous doesn't answer anything. The only time i read about gc is some drama around transgender people.

Datun · 12/09/2021 22:11

@anaily

To all the replies to me, if you go out and ask a bunch of random people you'll get my sort of questions, i get your main issues in life is what genitals people have and who is using the cubicle next to you, for the general public like me issue are when I'm going to eat next or paying rent and bills, i don't relate to your issues at all. I know lgbt people, some are in my extended family and some are friends, you portraying them as a threat is just absurd, those i know are the most loveliest people i know. Your description of them is at odds with me. I'm not saying you haven't met creepy people, I've met my fair share of them, however i don't go applying that to an entire group. I genuinely don't see how a birth certificate affects anyone's life, no one has explained it yet. So i may be missing something but no one is offering to explain or answer my questions. I'm inclined to listen to the minority group than those talking about that very group. I started looking into it after the pub thing where gc got kicked out, good people don't get kicked out for no good reason. I am allowed to hold my own opinions, although they are heavily frowned upon.
Karen White. Second time I've said it.
Helleofabore · 12/09/2021 22:18

You were given links to read on a thread and instead of reading you made yet another misinformed comment about birth certificates.

I doubt you are posting in good faith. I doubt you are interested in listening at all.

Helleofabore · 12/09/2021 22:24

@anaily

Links to a 30 page thread that has no explanation of how birth certificates are dangerous doesn't answer anything. The only time i read about gc is some drama around transgender people.
Did you read any of the links?

Probably not since you were on another thread declaring that anything but affirming only treatment was dangerous. Which those who are working everyday with trans people are saying is the wrong approach. Even Dr Steensma, whose gender treatment recommendations have been used extensively, has said that for the current cohort of young transitioners affirming only would be wrong.

You are talking about birth certificates, some of us are trying to ensure children, some of our own, are getting the best health care.

SpindleWhorl · 12/09/2021 22:31

My main concern is safeguarding.

Soontobe60 · 12/09/2021 22:33

genuinely don't see how a birth certificate affects anyone's life, no one has explained it yet. So i may be missing something but no one is offering to explain or answer my questions. I'm inclined to listen to the minority group than those talking about that very group. I started looking into it after the pub thing where gc got kicked out, good people don't get kicked out for no good reason

So why do some trans people insist on changing their birth certificates if they don’t affect anyone’s life? Sounds transphobic to me.

The women who were asked to leave the pub because the trans bar person identified a woman who was known to hold gender critical views were absolutely asked to leave ‘for no good reason’ other than holding perfectly legal, acceptable views. They’d been in the pub for 2 hours minding their own business before being asked to leave. Marion Millar left immediately, because she didn’t want any trouble with the TRA.

Helleofabore · 12/09/2021 22:34

@anaily

Links to a 30 page thread that has no explanation of how birth certificates are dangerous doesn't answer anything. The only time i read about gc is some drama around transgender people.
You seem to be stuck discussing birth certificates? Why
anaily · 12/09/2021 22:34

Karen white was or was not trans? I couldn't find anything about grc. Do i believe an entire minority is the same as Karen? No.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6169813/Rapist-Karen-Whites-ex-girlfriend-says-gender-change-sham.html

EishetChayil · 12/09/2021 22:35

We know your game @anaily. Just like Shizuku and Blueberry before you.

Helleofabore · 12/09/2021 22:37

Do i believe an entire minority is the same as Karen? No.

Do you actually understand safeguarding at all?

anaily · 12/09/2021 22:38

You seem to be stuck discussing birth certificates? Why

So far that's what it seems to be about, with the gender reform, suppressing transgender peoples self identity.

SpindleWhorl · 12/09/2021 22:39

Best ignored now I think. Not posting on good faith for sure.

anaily · 12/09/2021 22:40

Genuinely have no idea who those 2 people are.
Safeguarding? Trans non binary and birth certificates are no threat to me.

Helleofabore · 12/09/2021 22:40

Karen white was or was not trans?

They are if they say they are. It is transphobic to tell someone they are not. Are you deciding who is and isn’t?

anaily · 12/09/2021 22:41

How do i ask in "good faith"?

SpindleWhorl · 12/09/2021 22:41

Anyway, best of luck to James Esses.

I'm pleased he has secured a strong, albeit small, legal team.

anaily · 12/09/2021 22:43

I'm not, no. The ex gf is in the article. So i have to weigh up your opinion and the ex gf's lived experience. Factor in the media stir up anything. Who do i believe.

Helleofabore · 12/09/2021 22:46

@anaily

Genuinely have no idea who those 2 people are. Safeguarding? Trans non binary and birth certificates are no threat to me.
Righto. Thanks for being honest that you have no idea about how safeguarding works.

Maybe you could tell us why males were excluded from female single sex spaces in the first place?

And then, maybe you can produce the evidence on exactly how males who transition have any different criminal pattern to males who don’t transition. Everyone knows that ‘not all males are like that’ and we don’t need to protect ourselves from a large proportion of males. But please produce the research or statistics that prove that transitioned males don’t commit sex crimes at the same rate as other males.

By the way, there is some links about this on that thread you keep telling us doesn’t tell you why ‘birth certificates’ are dangerous…

titchy · 12/09/2021 22:50

Maybe anaily thinks James' case is just about children changing their birth certificates? 🤷‍♀️

Good they're keeping the thread active though!

Deliriumoftheendless · 12/09/2021 22:51

@anaily

I'm not, no. The ex gf is in the article. So i have to weigh up your opinion and the ex gf's lived experience. Factor in the media stir up anything. Who do i believe.
And yet they ended up in a women’s prison.

Why?

anaily · 12/09/2021 22:51

So basically birth certificates are dangerous because some men commit sex crimes?

Helleofabore · 12/09/2021 22:51

So far that's what it seems to be about, with the gender reform, suppressing transgender peoples self identity.

You know that the feminist discussion boards are for discussing women’s rights and how to strengthen the rights for women and girls to make sure they protect the needs of those women and girls? Not to discuss trans rights unless they are for females who identify as trans (ie. Transmen).

anaily · 12/09/2021 22:52

I don't agree with them being in a womans prison, they should be kept isolated elsewhere.