James Esses Case - Evidence-based therapy

[RoastChicory]

There has been an update from James Esses, who was suspended from his psychotherapy course as he set up a petition to make sure therapists were allowed to explore issues with gender dysphoria patients and not simply affirm the patient’s self-diagnosis.

Shockingly, it appears that the U.K. psychotherapists association put pressure to expel James from the course. They are therefore also now part of the case. If James wins, this would set a very important message to similar associations.

Email copied below

Update on Expelled from my university course for holding gender critical views

Dear Supporters,

Thanks to the overwhelming support I received from my original crowdfunding, my lawyers have now been able to draft and lodge my claim. My lawyers are Akua Reindorf, who wrote the Reindorf review into the treatment by Essex University of its gender critical staff, and Peter Daly of Doyle Clayton Solicitors, who acted for Maya Forstater in the appeal that established gender critical beliefs such as mine as being protected from discrimination.

My claim is in the Employment Tribunal, because both of the Respondents provide workplace qualifications. These are litigated in the Employment Tribunal because of section 53 of the Equality Act 2010.

The First Respondent is Metanoia. The acts of discrimination I am litigating are set out in my original crowdfunding page.

The Second Respondent is UKCP, the United Kingdom Council for Psychotherapy. This is the main registration body for councillors and psychotherapists in the UK. These are not regulated professions, so they don’t have a regulator in the same way that Doctors have the General Medical Council, or solicitors have the Solicitors Regulation Authority. But UKCP is in many ways a quasi-regulator, because registration with the UKCP (or one other counterpart) is required in order to qualify formally as a counsellor or psychotherapist.

It has come to light in Subject Access Request responses that UKCP were far more involved in Metanoia’s actions towards me than I had previously realised. Metanoia were liaising with UKCP, who were putting pressure on Metanoia in how they dealt with me. My claim is therefore also against UKCP, on the basis that its actions instructed, caused or induced Metanoia’s discrimination against me, as well as those actions being discriminatory against me in their own right. As with Metanoia, I am litigating against UKCP on the basis that it is a qualifications body, but also on the basis that it is a Trade Association – both of these are within the Employment Tribunal’s jurisdiction under the Equality Act 2010.

This is, as far as I am aware, the first claim for gender critical belief discrimination brought against a registration body or quasi-regulator like UKCP. This is therefore an important case because it will have relevance for other regulators and other regulated professions.

@Antinerak

I am not a TERF, Karen, transphobe or otherwise, i am definitely not GC and I would go to rallies to support trans right but I agree that children experiencing gender dysphoria and those who identify as trans/non-binary etc require guidance and time to make sure they are making the right decision with how they'll go through their transition.

They shouldn't be stopped but they should be held back from making non-reversible and potentially damaging changes until they've had plenty of information and help. There are lots of routes to go down to validate their gender and they should be given fair and equal information to help them choose the right one. I personally think any serious stages (i.e medication, binding, etc) should only be taken at 16+ and surgery 18+ but lifestyle changes, pronoun and name changes can be supported at any age. Not because I don't believe them or because I don't think they should have physical transitions but because it's a lot to take on and they deserve to be supported through it when they're mature enough to understand how their body is and how it will be.

Oh. Right. So…. Pretty much what many people who post on this board regularly think.

Can you please tell us what you think the GC position on this issue is?

@anaily

The main stigma and mockery comes from GC people telling them to conform to gender stereotypes according to their anatomy. The reality is they are trans.

That is exactly the opposite of what Gender Critical means. I think you have been reading some very misleading sources.

@anaily

The main stigma and mockery comes from GC people telling them to conform to gender stereotypes according to their anatomy. The reality is they are trans.

You are absolutely wrong. The idea of therapy is to allow the young person to be comfortable in their gender non conformity. You have utterly misunderstood the whole gender critical perspective.

When a girl says they are a boy, you will firmly put them back into their box? (Which is the girl box)

anaily even you cant really believe that being a girl or a boy is a stereotype? Do you know what a stereotype is?

Also, how embarrassing to go onto a thread and try to lecture people when you can't even be bothered to fact check what they actually think. I'm mortified for you. Is this how you go about life in general?

Thank you to those keeping the thread active. Have pledged.

Posted too soon. If so, you must look like a right wally. Lecturing people about the situation in kabul - saying "I can't believe the women there are literally destroying any references to men in the public sphere."

Or lecturing people about vegans - "oh they hate animals and are trying to make sure industrialised abattoirs are the only kind of food available."

Total wally.

@CuntAmongstThePigeons

Also, how embarrassing to go onto a thread and try to lecture people when you can't even be bothered to fact check what they actually think. I'm mortified for you. Is this how you go about life in general?

Sometimes the only way to “win” an argument (in your own mind) is to flat out lie about what the other person is saying.

titchy - exactly.

@anaily

"What makes you feel that way? What has been happening in you le life? Basically, to do psychotherapy. "

The aim of the therapy tying to find a cause? Some trauma perhaps? To then fix that with the goal of the trans kid no longer identifying as their gender? So the child is gender conforming? Sounds eerily similar to conversion therapy. I can see why childline dropped him. Hopefully all the children he came into contact with are followed up with. Promoting extreme forms of self hate is not therapy.

If a teen who attends counselling sessions has been self harming, or shows signs of having an eating disorder, what do you think a therapist should do? Should they A) try to ascertain why they feel the need to self harm or starve themselves, Or B) dismiss any attempt to ascertain why they self harm or starve themselves and affirm that it’s ok to continue with that pathway as it’s a valid identity?

@anaily

GC philosophy is boys will be boys, girls will be girls. That any other combination is wrong and needs to be corrected. No deviation or anything.

This doesn't make sense, what other combinations are there? That some boys are girls and some girls are boys? Doesn't this have implications for the idea that TWAW?

@anaily

The main stigma and mockery comes from GC people telling them to conform to gender stereotypes according to their anatomy. The reality is they are trans.

You don’t understand what GC means, do you? Let me help - it is the very opposite of what you’re saying, ie telling people to conform to ‘gender stereotypes according to their anatomy’.

Here’s an example of being GC:
Someone who has been born with a penis and testicles can wear make up, play with dolls, be a stay at home parent, work in a nursery.
Someone born with a vagina can be the CEO of British Gas, be a plumber, have very short hair, not like babies.
In other words, what we do for a job, what we like and dislike, what we wear, how we show our feelings has nothing to do with our genitals. People who believe in ‘gender’ thinks it does.

@anaily

"What makes you feel that way? What has been happening in you le life? Basically, to do psychotherapy. "

The aim of the therapy tying to find a cause? Some trauma perhaps? To then fix that with the goal of the trans kid no longer identifying as their gender? So the child is gender conforming? Sounds eerily similar to conversion therapy. I can see why childline dropped him. Hopefully all the children he came into contact with are followed up with. Promoting extreme forms of self hate is not therapy.

"Transgender" as a medical condition and as a concept is entirely invented by the medical profession and now also various other people in non medical popular culture.

History here:

quillette.com/2021/09/07/the-truth-about-autogynephilia/?fbclid=IwAR1Uior8A0dfe5lyJRzc26Fgw-GiZMrCqxTFYMkfsfhuQuLVigSRVeQm0nw

[quote DoesHePlayTheFiddle]I watched this yesterday. I was very impressed by James Esses. [/quote]

Thanks for this, will have a watch later

Delirium - yes you're quite right. It's fascinating to see in action though isn't it.

That's shocking, but not surprising news RoastChicory. It was already a case to watch, but it's even more important now. Thanks for the update.
----

The aim of the therapy tying to find a cause? Some trauma perhaps? To then fix that with the goal of the trans kid no longer identifying as their gender? So the child is gender conforming?

You cannot fix trauma, anaily. If you think that's what counselling does, you might have misunderstood.

Trauma manifests in a variety of ways. Children may cope with trauma in maladaptive ways that help relieve stress and pain on a temporary basis, but that prevent them from adjusting to whatever trauma they experienced in a healthy and helpful way.

Children are often unable to process traumatic events, they may not be able to talk about it, so noticing maladaptive behaviours can often be the first sign that something upsetting happened in the child's life.

As trauma, including bereavement, abuse and sexual violence, is known to be a causative factor in many cases of gender dysphoria in children, it has always been considered vital to explore the child's background by those treating children with gender dysphoria.

If you read up on the treatment protocols developed by the Dutch clinicians who developed the affirmative approach (using puberty blockers), you will find this reflected in many of their research papers.

They insist on treating the child's trauma symptoms and on helping the child cope with their trauma before proceeding with a transition.

What James Esses was requesting in the counselling of children diagnosed with gender dysphoria was considered to be a bare minimum standard of care not so long ago. That's because exploring any underlying reasons for their gender dysphoria is in the best interest of these children.

Sounds eerily similar to conversion therapy. I can see why childline dropped him. Hopefully all the children he came into contact with are followed up with. Promoting extreme forms of self hate is not therapy.

And no, it does not involve forcing them to conform to sex stereotypes and sex role stereotypes. That's the domain of other ideologies. It's not conversion therapy to ask a child why it feels that it is the opposite sex. And to help a child reconcile their body and mind, so that they are happier in their own skin, is the complete opposite of self hate. It is an act of self love to accept your own body as it is and not as you might wish it to be.

@CuntAmongstThePigeons

Delirium - yes you're quite right. It's fascinating to see in action though isn't it.

It was, the first few hundred times.

It’s so last year, darling! 🤣

I’ve know plenty of children who have suffered ACEs (adverse childhood experiences) and have become reliant upon drugs, alcohol and violence to cope as they went untreated.

Just being their authentic selves though! Let’s let them crack on, eh?

@anaily

"What makes you feel that way? What has been happening in you le life? Basically, to do psychotherapy. "

The aim of the therapy tying to find a cause? Some trauma perhaps? To then fix that with the goal of the trans kid no longer identifying as their gender? So the child is gender conforming? Sounds eerily similar to conversion therapy. I can see why childline dropped him. Hopefully all the children he came into contact with are followed up with. Promoting extreme forms of self hate is not therapy.

Don't jump to conclusions. The therapy needs to ascertain that the person isn't hoping that a new gender will mean being a different person because we are who we are under the skin, whatever gender and if the dysphoria isn't gender-based but has another underlying cause, why not safely rule that out before embarking on irreversible medical procedures?

I have ADHD, which has strong links with trauma, as well as a trauma history.

'Treatment' so far for me has been 3 years of trauma therapy (ironically with a UKCP psychotherapist) to process all of the traumatic material.

Once this was done I was able to move into more here and now strategies to manage the symptoms of my ADHD. I may, or may not start with medication but am on a waiting list to talk about this.

If I had been rushed straight to medication without any of the other interventions I would have been failed.

What we need is what Keira Bell thinks she should have had in retrospect:

^^I was an unhappy girl who needed help. Instead, I was treated like an experiment

www.persuasion.community/p/keira-bell-my-story

Is anaily a GC plant? Someone to present various TRA myths in order to give GC posters a chance to respond and show how they are lies or distortions of the facts? Great work by the way.

@Tibtom

Is anaily a GC plant? Someone to present various TRA myths in order to give GC posters a chance to respond and show how they are lies or distortions of the facts? Great work by the way.

I assume they have encountered "Gender Critical" only in the context of biased sources claiming it's just another label for transphobes.

Those who claim GC means transphobic typically make no distinction between groups (often far right) who reject gender ideology because they believe in traditional gender roles (these being the groups who actually are transphobic and in some cases violent) and GC people who reject gender ideology because they believe in no gender roles.

I doubt anaily has actually read any firsthand GC arguments being made by GC people, just genderist articles giving fallacious examples of supposed "GC" arguments which of course are nothing of the sort, plus perhaps the odd very small out of context twitter quote surrounded by a distorting narrative.

Hopefully, anaily will hang around to hear what we really think not what someone told them we think.

And maybe after that, they will come to wonder "If someone lied to me about what GC people actually say, what else did they lie to me about?"

When a girl says they are a boy, you will firmly put them back into their box? (Which is the girl box)

Putting people into boxes you say? If you give a child medication which has the effect that they can never have their own children, aren't you fixing their identity for life?

Therapy, thoughtful reflection, waiting - these all offer you an open future, a chance to change your mind. That's the opposite of putting someone in a box.

When a girl says they are a boy, you will firmly put them back into their box? (Which is the girl box)

Please explain what it means in your mind when a girl says they are a boy? Do you think a teenage old girl should be put onto puberty blockers, like Lupron, which now has a building class action for all the girls and women put on it for other purposes who have significant health issues.

Are you perfectly comfortable with telling children that those are ‘reversible’ knowing that it is highly likely in 10-20 years they will have negative side effects? When that teenage girl may have simply needed therapy for underlying issues?

Good luck to you if you are comfortable with that.

Thanks for the thread OP. Have donated more. This is an incredibly important case. I've benefitted from a lot of therapy. I shudder to think that if my child needed it in the future, they might not have access to proper in-depth psychotherapy, simply because they don't conform to regressive gender stereotypes so the therapist might feel duty bound to affirm them as trans instead.

Amazed at the brazen attitude of anaily in repeatedly misunderstanding/ misrepresenting what gender critical means but not letting it hold them back from posting nonetheless! Wish I had that level of confidence when talking about topics I'm entirely ignorant on. I think the key is to not listen to a word anyone says in reply. Might try it tomorrow!