What does she/they actually mean?

[bocodilloconqueso]

I noticed that a colleague has put She/they as her (their?) pronouns. I need help to understand this please?
I barely know them so don't feel comfortable asking. Particularly as there are always other people around.
Can anyone enlighten me?

@ValancyRedfern

SazzyB you have just demonstrated how gender identity is all about stereotypes. Take away the stereotypes (as we would like to do), and what is left to identify with?

The thing is though, stereotypes are real. They're a fact of life. We can't just "take away the stereotypes", they are there and they have been throughout human history.

If you deny people's gender preferences on the basis that gender only exists because of stereotypes, you are essentially telling them to live in an imagined reality that is not actually the Real World in which we live.

If you deny people's gender preferences on the basis that gender only exists because of stereotypes, you are essentially telling them to live in an imagined reality that is not actually the Real World in which we live.

100 years ago women couldn’t vote on equal terms with men. 25 years ago there was no women’s weightlifting at the Olympics. I could go on, but it would be a very long list.

It’s ridiculous to suggest that people should just accept stereotypes.

It’s quite possible to ‘live authentically’ without tying your identity to gendered expectations of how men and women should behave.

Maybe you have a bit of chin hair and look a bit manly in your features so people figure it's OK to just call you "he" because actually you look a bit more like a man than a women.

I think you know that's not actually what's being discussed.

@SazzyB100

Lots of narrow minded and bigoted people here! Genitals refer to your sex whereas gender is on a line. Being born with male genitals doesn’t mean you hate pink or dolls or emotions. Being born with female genitals doesn’t mean you hate trains, planes and football. Everyone is different. Tomboy is basically a woman who has a brain that is more similar to a man. They may think of themselves as male and identify in that way. As for prefixes, it is ridiculous that all men are Mr but women have a prefix related to their marital status. Why? Ms is meant to be similar to Mr. At work we had the option to put a prefix. I chose she/her. I hope it makes others feel more included. Quite why people are making such a big deal about people choosing to be their authentic self I don’t know. What is gender? That is a far more interesting question!

If your post is on the up and up, the narrow minded person is you.

You need to update your views which are clearly last year! You refer to gender stereotypes which frankly were busted in my own family in the 70s, yet snuck back in a decade ago to the complete detriment of my child’s generation. Toys are toys, hobbies are hobbies. We’d worked hard to remove any sexist connection to any of them and here you are trying to educate feminists using the lines lobby groups were pushing until even the Education department had to write guidance to get any mention of wrong body and ‘gendered’ toys out of the school’s curriculum.

I take it Sazzy you have arrived from another social media platform with a view to what you would find here on Mumsnet already preconceived and haven’t read much at all. I recommend you start with this link.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3145470-Break-it-down-for-me?msgid=110541229#110541229

Please read through to the end as gradually this link turns into not only being an informed discussion, but a bank of evidence that includes studies, articles, legal analysis etc.

You will also find there studies that debunk that pseudo science about male and female brains that you have swallowed.

Good luck to you though. I suspect that you won’t read the link and will continue to believe that regular posters on these threads are simply hateful and uneducated. What you don’t realise is that your post is being read by thousands of eyes who WILL read further and will see your post as the uneducated one. So thank you. You have done great work here in ‘educating’ everyone…. Just not how you think.

Brain similar to man
You mean larger volume? I did not think that only larger than average females could be tomboys ?

Pronoun rounds haven't started here yet and I hope the nonsense fad passes before they do. In my view Mx is interesting and a good idea, though I haven't used it myself. Halsey successfully got TWO headlines out of her nonsense about authentic pronouns so well done them I guess.

Maybe you have a bit of chin hair and look a bit manly in your features

Imagine if chin hair and ‘manly’ features were all you needed to achieve equality.

Jane Austen’s plots would have been completely different for a start!

The thing is though, stereotypes are real. They're a fact of life. We can't just "take away the stereotypes", they are there and they have been throughout human history

But stereotypes change. Tell me, is playing football (soccer) a traditionally male activity or female? Would your view depend on whether you live in the UK or the US?

Are women oppressed in places like Afghanistan because they 'accept' the gendered roles that have been forced upon them? In other words, are they complicit in their own oppression because they could just identify as men and stop being oppressed? If so, problem solved!

Do you think it is helpful to tell girls that Joan of Arc was actually male because she took on a leadership role? What does that say about women and the role of women?

Women have been fighting stereotypes for years. That's why women now have the vote, can attend university, are able to own property, are able to keep their jobs after marriage and have mortgages in their own names. Because they had to fight the stereotype that women weren't silly, irrational creatures incapable of learning or applying logic. Did you know that one argument against giving women the vote was the fact that women are not capable of thinking rationally when they are on their periods?

Should these women have all said 'oh well, that's just how it is, women are defined by these stereotypes and there's nothing anyone can do, that's life'? Are you seriously making this argument to women on a feminist board?

The thing is though, stereotypes are real. They're a fact of life. We can't just "take away the stereotypes", they are there and they have been throughout human history.

I guess if you live under a rock you would believe that feminists have been fighting to eradicate stereotypes. What on earth do you believe feminists have been doing?

Of course you can take away stereotypes! Even if it is just at family level to give a child the space they need to live a life they choose not what is dictated by society. However, you might be surprised that today girls are actively encouraged to play any sport they like, and are encouraged to study any topic they are interested in. They may still encounter discrimination and that needs to be addressed for what it is. Sexist discrimination that negatively impacts females.

So, yes. We can get rid of stereotypes and we are working to do so. We have had a set back thanks to these stereotypes being used to prop up gender identities though.

It seems that stereotypes are at the centre of people’s gender identity even though this is denied constantly. Because without it, the claim of being the opposite sex cannot be explained with clarity and with consistency.

We also need to address more specifically that sexist discrimination that is inherent in our lives and has seemed to get much worse with the exposure of the misogyny of the gender identity ideology supported by queer theory.

Because they had to fight the stereotype that women were silly, irrational creatures incapable of learning or applying logic

Sorry, typo in my above post.

ArcheryAnnie that made me proper chuckle Well played.

If you deny people's gender preferences on the basis that gender only exists because of stereotypes, you are essentially telling them to live in an imagined reality that is not actually the Real World in which we live.

If someone has constructed a reality that relies on stereotypes that are imposed by some people but are not actually based on facts and science and are proven to be not real, why should that person be supported in believing those falsehoods are real?

Are you also stating that gender identity is only based on stereotypes? Isn’t that transphobic? And outdated?

Strawberrydonut are you really saying that someone’s gender identity relies on stereotypes so therefore we should stop trying to break down stereotypes that uphold discrimination around the world?

Is that really what you are saying?

Stereotypes are real in that people use them , subconscious lazy thinking , to box people, to mistreat them

They are not real in that the ideas they encompass ( women are stupid) are not real

People have subconscious fast thinking but that doesn't mean the answer they get is correct and it doesn't mean they can't change the answer the brain gives

That's why stereotypes vary across cultures .. the mechanisms for forming and using stereotypes is innate , the specific stereotypes are not innate

I guess if you live under a rock you would believe that feminists have been fighting to eradicate stereotypes.

Gah!!!!! Wouldn’t believe. Not would. Of course.

Strawberrydonut are you really saying that someone’s gender identity relies on stereotypes so therefore we should stop trying to break down stereotypes that uphold discrimination around the world?

Is that really what you are saying?

It would appear so.

Maybe you have a bit of chin hair and look a bit manly in your features so people figure it's OK to just call you "he" because actually you look a bit more like a man than a women.

If someone doesn’t know me and has made that assumption, and I found out because someone told me, I might correct that assumption if I needed to. But otherwise, I’d like to think I was resilient enough to handle hearing that. As I was frequently missexed as a child, I know my life is not dependent on being corrected sexed (unless it is a medical issue.)

If you heard someone else referring to a woman you know as "he" in her absence, because she "looks a bit manly", would you be OK about that?

So, we are to police everyone’s language and perception? Good to have that clarified. Thanks.

I was a tomboy and I find it unbelievable that my 8 year old brain was like a man’s.

And that was in the early 80s so maybe I had a brain like The Professionals or The Sweeny.

Tomboy is basically a woman who has a brain that is more similar to a man. They may think of themselves as male and identify in that way.

The more I read this the more I laugh. This has to be a wind up. … doesn’t it? As a ‘tomboy’ of old, I rather think my brain is female as it is in a female body and therefore is the right size for my head. It is also female in that it may have a slightly different shape to match my female skull. It has certain functions that manage a female body and its needs. It has certain pathways that have been forged doing activities that I like and that are specific to ME. A male will have pathways forged by doing things they like or simply do specific to them. They may look similar to mine but it is not sex based.

Stop spreading dangerous misinformation over the internet. There are no brains in wrong bodies. Stop believing pseudoscience.

Maybe we are narrow minded because we have narrower women's brain's, and tomboys have wider men's brains?

Is that it Izzy? Do come back and carry on with the science bits, it's fun.

@SazzyB100

Lots of narrow minded and bigoted people here! Genitals refer to your sex whereas gender is on a line. Being born with male genitals doesn’t mean you hate pink or dolls or emotions. Being born with female genitals doesn’t mean you hate trains, planes and football. Everyone is different. Tomboy is basically a woman who has a brain that is more similar to a man. They may think of themselves as male and identify in that way. As for prefixes, it is ridiculous that all men are Mr but women have a prefix related to their marital status. Why? Ms is meant to be similar to Mr. At work we had the option to put a prefix. I chose she/her. I hope it makes others feel more included. Quite why people are making such a big deal about people choosing to be their authentic self I don’t know. What is gender? That is a far more interesting question!

How can you not see how sexist this is?! You can’t “have a brain more similar to a man”, male and female brains are virtually indistinguishable. And brains are very adaptable to training.

“Being born with male genitals doesn’t mean you hate pink or dolls or emotions. Being born with female genitals doesn’t mean you hate trains, planes and football.”

Being a (bog standard) MAN doesn’t mean you hate pink or dolls or emotions ffs. It might mean you are socially conditioned to dislike these things but as it isn’t actually the 1950s anymore we tend not to say these superficial likes and dislikes are innate.

Ooh I see this thread has touched a nerve. So many people on here are acting like they're also questioning their identity. The closet is glass huns x

@Antinerak

Ooh I see this thread has touched a nerve. So many people on here are acting like they're also questioning their identity. The closet is glass huns x

I have never claimed to have a gender. It has always been sexist and based on pseudoscience.

@Antinerak

Ooh I see this thread has touched a nerve. So many people on here are acting like they're also questioning their identity. The closet is glass huns x

What are glass huns?

@Antinerak

Ooh I see this thread has touched a nerve. So many people on here are acting like they're also questioning their identity. The closet is glass huns x

I think we should all question our identity, once everyone has a 'unique' identity it will no longer be such a thing and therefore it will just end.