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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

Original poster

What does she/they actually mean?

119 replies

bocodilloconqueso · 07/09/2021 21:18

I noticed that a colleague has put She/they as her (their?) pronouns. I need help to understand this please?
I barely know them so don't feel comfortable asking. Particularly as there are always other people around.
Can anyone enlighten me? Confused

OP posts:
Stopsnowing · 08/09/2021 21:26

Isn’t they plural or am I getting muddled

MintMe · 08/09/2021 21:28

@Stopsnowing

Isn’t they plural or am I getting muddled
'They' is a non gendered singular reference.
merrymouse · 08/09/2021 21:28

‘They’ is the plural of ‘she/he/it’ in English and is used to refer to everyone and everything when referring to a plural subject.

If the grammar expectation is different here then more explanation is required. At least they/them is clearly subject/object.

merrymouse · 08/09/2021 21:33

Just like I've demonstrated in this reply. It's not hard or complicated

If you switch pronouns mid sentence or mid paragraph the implication is that the subject has changed.

Cazzovuoi · 08/09/2021 21:37

Why the fuck does anyone care what people call them when they are not around to hear it?

Woke foolery

SazzyB100 · 08/09/2021 22:07

Lots of narrow minded and bigoted people here! Genitals refer to your sex whereas gender is on a line. Being born with male genitals doesn’t mean you hate pink or dolls or emotions. Being born with female genitals doesn’t mean you hate trains, planes and football. Everyone is different. Tomboy is basically a woman who has a brain that is more similar to a man. They may think of themselves as male and identify in that way. As for prefixes, it is ridiculous that all men are Mr but women have a prefix related to their marital status. Why? Ms is meant to be similar to Mr. At work we had the option to put a prefix. I chose she/her. I hope it makes others feel more included. Quite why people are making such a big deal about people choosing to be their authentic self I don’t know. What is gender? That is a far more interesting question!

EarringsandLipstick · 08/09/2021 22:08

Tomboy is basically a woman who has a brain that is more similar to a man.

Sorry, what?!

'A brain that is more similar to a man'. Good Lord. What century are you in?

Theeyeballsinthesky · 08/09/2021 22:14

Grin my DH is baking this weekend - perhaps he’s borrowing my female brain to do that?

I’ll be borrowing his male brain to fix the laptop

Or alternatively we could agree gender imposes restrictive stereotypes on men and women and everyone should be free to live as they choose. It’s fine to be a man who Wears dresses and make up rather than insisting that a man who does that must be a woman

merrymouse · 08/09/2021 22:17

@EarringsandLipstick

Tomboy is basically a woman who has a brain that is more similar to a man.

Sorry, what?!

'A brain that is more similar to a man'. Good Lord. What century are you in?

Yes, please do explain this comment. It is almost as though you have found a way to send posts from 1852.
merrymouse · 08/09/2021 22:21

What is gender? That is a far more interesting question

Gender is societal and cultural expectations of how people should behave because of their sex.

The really interesting question is why anyone would suggest that it’s a good idea to categorise individuals by gender.

ArcheryAnnie · 08/09/2021 22:27

Tomboy is basically a woman who has a brain that is more similar to a man

Are you on glue?

(I've been saving that mumsnet chestnut for years. Can't think a better candidate will ever come along.)

Fitt · 08/09/2021 22:27

Tomboy is basically a woman who has a brain that is more similar to a man.

Quite amusing to be called bigoted and narrow minded by someone writing this nonsense.

Stopsnowing · 08/09/2021 22:27

“Gender is societal and cultural expectations of how people should behave because of their sex.

The really interesting question is why anyone would suggest that it’s a good idea to categorise individuals by gender.”

This

Whitefire · 08/09/2021 22:29

Being born with female genitals doesn’t mean you hate trains, planes and football.

My bits have been fairly good at growing and nourishing babies, I'm not that sure they dictate my interests.

Bordois · 08/09/2021 22:29

@SazzyB100

Lots of narrow minded and bigoted people here! Genitals refer to your sex whereas gender is on a line. Being born with male genitals doesn’t mean you hate pink or dolls or emotions. Being born with female genitals doesn’t mean you hate trains, planes and football. Everyone is different. Tomboy is basically a woman who has a brain that is more similar to a man. They may think of themselves as male and identify in that way. As for prefixes, it is ridiculous that all men are Mr but women have a prefix related to their marital status. Why? Ms is meant to be similar to Mr. At work we had the option to put a prefix. I chose she/her. I hope it makes others feel more included. Quite why people are making such a big deal about people choosing to be their authentic self I don’t know. What is gender? That is a far more interesting question!
Wow, please tell me more.

How do I know if my brain is male or female?

Cailleach1 · 08/09/2021 22:29

@Newbabynewhouse

Oh holy cow... haha ..
Is that the latest pronoun?
GroggyLegs · 08/09/2021 22:41

Being born with male genitals doesn’t mean you hate pink or dolls or emotions. Being born with female genitals doesn’t mean you hate trains, planes and football. Everyone is different. Tomboy is basically a woman who has a brain that is more similar to a man

This statement is a GC soup with Trans ideology croutons.

therocinante · 09/09/2021 00:07

@Cyberworrier

A friend who does this self identifies as queer, despite being married and only ever having had heterosexual relationships. So I think it may be a way of signalling “queerness” (or- I’m not like other girls 🙄)
You know you can be sexually attracted to women/NB people and still only have dated men, right? Right??????!

Especially considering many queer women don't realise/feel comfortable expressing that they're bi or queer until later in life - thanks, comp het - by which point they may already have chosen to settle down with a man, but which doesn't invalidate their sexuality...?

Signed, a bi women who is married to a man and never openly dated women because she was scared of the response, but who definitely is still sexually attracted to women 😘

TheGirlCat · 09/09/2021 04:26

@ArcheryAnnie

Tomboy is basically a woman who has a brain that is more similar to a man

Are you on glue?

(I've been saving that mumsnet chestnut for years. Can't think a better candidate will ever come along.)

Darn, I was going to say exactly that, but you beat me to it.
TheGirlCat · 09/09/2021 04:28

@SazzyB100

Lots of narrow minded and bigoted people here! Genitals refer to your sex whereas gender is on a line. Being born with male genitals doesn’t mean you hate pink or dolls or emotions. Being born with female genitals doesn’t mean you hate trains, planes and football. Everyone is different. Tomboy is basically a woman who has a brain that is more similar to a man. They may think of themselves as male and identify in that way. As for prefixes, it is ridiculous that all men are Mr but women have a prefix related to their marital status. Why? Ms is meant to be similar to Mr. At work we had the option to put a prefix. I chose she/her. I hope it makes others feel more included. Quite why people are making such a big deal about people choosing to be their authentic self I don’t know. What is gender? That is a far more interesting question!
A tomboy is a CHILD, a girl who gets more enjoyment from playing with boys and masculine gender-stereotyped toys. Not a 'woman'. And there is no such thing as 'man brain' or 'woman brain'. I cannot believe you wrote that drivel soup with a straight face.
PurgatoryOfPotholes · 09/09/2021 05:05

IIRC, the biggest difference between male and female brains is volume- the average male skeleton, including skull, being bigger means the brain is too.

So I must presumably have a man's size brain! As I have a small head, that will explain why I'm prone to headaches. I thought it was just too much screentime.

EdgeOfACoin · 09/09/2021 05:25

Being born with male genitals doesn’t mean you hate pink or dolls or emotions. Being born with female genitals doesn’t mean you hate trains, planes and football.

Every gender critical feminist on the planet would agree with you. But tell me - why did Jazz Jennings have to transition and undergo genital surgery on the basis that Jazz liked pink, sparkles and dolls as a child??? Same goes for Jackie Green. Why were they not able to be boys who liked pink sparkly things and dolls?

Tomboy is basically a woman who has a brain that is more similar to a man

Please, tell me, what is the difference between a 'man's' brain and a 'woman's' brain? Are men good at things like being lawyers and doctors because of their manly brains and women good at being secretaries and nurses because of their lady brains? Or am I getting confused? Please could you explain this to me?

As for prefixes, it is ridiculous that all men are Mr but women have a prefix related to their marital status. Why? Ms is meant to be similar to Mr.

Yes. Ms has been the default for female employees everywhere I have worked for the last 15 years. Miss and Mrs are quite old-fashioned. What's wrong with Ms? And 'she/her' aren't prefixes, they're pronouns. You wouldn't address someone as 'Her Jackson', you would say 'Ms Jackson'.

What is gender? That is a far more interesting question!

Well, you tell us. We've been asking for years. Specifically, how does 'gender identity' manifest itself away from 'gendered behaviour' or sexist stereotypes?

Over to you, @SazzyB100. I am open to being educated.

ValancyRedfern · 09/09/2021 06:31

SazzyB you have just demonstrated how gender identity is all about stereotypes. Take away the stereotypes (as we would like to do), and what is left to identify with?

onelittlefrog · 09/09/2021 07:48

It probably means that the person would like to be a "they", but most people are unable to get their heads around this and refer to them as "she" (possibly they were born female).

So to avoid conflict and constantly repeating themselves and making everything about their pronoun choice, they have resigned themselves to being a she/ they.

People who care/ respect them enough will use they, everyone else will use she.

It's a shame really, it's actually not that hard to use "they" once you get used to it, but so many people seem to struggle.

onelittlefrog · 09/09/2021 07:51

@Cazzovuoi

Why the fuck does anyone care what people call them when they are not around to hear it?

Woke foolery

Would you be happy if, when you weren't around, everyone referred to you as "he"?

Maybe you have a bit of chin hair and look a bit manly in your features so people figure it's OK to just call you "he" because actually you look a bit more like a man than a women.

If you heard someone else referring to a woman you know as "he" in her absence, because she "looks a bit manly", would you be OK about that?

It's about respect for the person even in their absence.