Why are they in a hospital bed? (Adoption related)

[FightingtheFoo]

I just want to be clear this has nothing to do with the parents in question being a same-sex couple. I feel equally about surrogacy whether it's Kim Kardashian buying a baby or Pete Buttigieg.

With that disclaimer:

Why on earth is he posing in a hospital bed?

I just find the absolute airbrushing out of the woman who actually carried, nurtured and gave birth to those babies for 9 months horrifying.

https://twitter.com/PeteButtigieg/status/1434167993769111552

@NiceGerbil

And yes of course it's a massive problem when women and girls give up their babies as soon as they're born due to outside pressures.

You saw the news items about the England mother and baby homes recently? Operating until into the 70s I think it was.

Elderly women still in tears talking about it. Traumatised by what happened. Never stopped thinking about, wondering about, missing their babies. That is a problem. Not a magical sodding gift.

My grandmother was in the magdalene laundries when pregnant with her first child. Its not just a news story to me.

Ok so you didn't mean this-

'Whats not to celebrate a woman who goes through all that to bring life into the world whether she gives up for adoption or raises them.'

Cool

Can you give a background to where you're hearing all that awful stuff you said about adoption?

Any links to threads/ news reports/ sites etc?

@NiceGerbil

Liberal and popular crowd????

I have no idea what you're on about tbh.

Neither the left nor the far left talk about adoption much at all. Unless something like that mother and baby homes thing comes up. Or if the topic is children in care and even then it's more about failures in care/ protection.

Where are you hearing UK people insulting women whose babies are adopted at birth (!?) and talking about indignity??

I have been in atheist groups which happen to have mostly men in them and abortion rights is right at the top when discussing womens rights. Adoption and fostering etc is seen as a failure. Well also added to that is that you're only allowed to say pregnant people and not pregnant women.

Do you have links?

Is this in UK? I'm surprised it's a talking point at all if here.

Atheist men talk a lot of shit when it comes to women is a given surely. Not all but certainly plenty.

Entitled distanced pontificating arses.

Well same as the religious ones to be fair!

Male views on all this are often bollocks.

@NiceGerbil

Ok so you didn't mean this-

'Whats not to celebrate a woman who goes through all that to bring life into the world whether she gives up for adoption or raises them.'

Cool

Can you give a background to where you're hearing all that awful stuff you said about adoption?

Any links to threads/ news reports/ sites etc?

When I talk about the woman or girl who gave birth to the two babies in the photo I'm talking about something shes already done. Shes not a category of "women who give up babies" shes someone, a woman pregnant for nine months and gives birth, one of the most painful and scariest things a woman can go through so yes she does deserve to be celebrated. Your attitude is though she's an after thought or just a term in someones ideology or political agenda.

@NiceGerbil

Atheist men talk a lot of shit when it comes to women is a given surely. Not all but certainly plenty.

Entitled distanced pontificating arses.

Well same as the religious ones to be fair!

Male views on all this are often bollocks.

I had guessed wrongly that your views were aligning with leftist woke men? I had to decipher what all the brow beating was about.

Erm.

I've been talking in generalities mostly.

I did look up the stats though and was really taken aback. As I have explained on the thread.

In general women/ girls do not want to give up newborns.

I have no idea obviously of the circs of the mother but if in general there are factors leading to the large adoption rate in USA which may include social/ financial pressure when it comes to newborns then that bothers me. I don't know. But it feels off.

We're mammals. Mammals that have just given birth are generally accepted to be important to/ connected to the baby/ babies they have just given birth to.

Even if humans are different (and why would we be) the question always needs to be asked.

Not asking the question can lead to enormous harm.

As has been seen in situations in the past.

Why did you assume that?

What do you mean by brow beating?

You still haven't given anything at all to show that in the UK it's a hot topic and giving birth is seen as undignified but only when it comes to babies that are separated from their mum at birth. Which doesn't happen much at all.

@NiceGerbil

Why did you assume that?

What do you mean by brow beating?

You still haven't given anything at all to show that in the UK it's a hot topic and giving birth is seen as undignified but only when it comes to babies that are separated from their mum at birth. Which doesn't happen much at all.

You said it yourself, basically on any atheist, woke bro platform. They are so thick actually that they make memes and jokes about abortion. As though women are slapping their thighs laughing after getting one.

Why would you go on those places/ meet in real life?

Men of all types can be and not infrequently are awful when it comes to women and girls full stop.

Have you challenged them?

I did challenge them and got banned from going to meetings or chatting on forums. I didn't mind as I was leaving anyway. The women in the group are few but are complete cheer leaders for these men. They mimic everything just to be accepted. Sick making, it really is a mens rights organisation.

I agree with the OP. But I have never heard birth mothers trashed for making the choice they have. By the way, it is not legal to sell babies in the US. Potential parents can offer to pay a pregnant woman's expenses, but she still has the right to change her mind and keep the baby (within the first few months window). It isn't like surrogacy, where she has no legal rights to the baby at all.

@MNHQ still waiting for a response about why my post was deleted.

@AwaAnBileYerHeid

Surely it's a family photo of the two parents as they are the parents? A friend of mine used a surrogate and the surrogate said that she never once looked at the kid as hers.

Well that's nice for her, but what about the baby who knew only her for 9 months of gestation, only to be taken off her the moment it was born?

@DulciUke

I see

UK--removes highly traumatized child from parents whose lives are out of control and chaotic=great!

US--birth mother knows that her life is out of control and her situation will lead to bad outcomes for child. Decides to give baby up for adoption =unthinkable. Awful.

Gotcha

I agree. There are posters on here who appear to think abortion is preferable to adoption.

In the UK I would say adoption is the option which now has a stigma attached to it. Does anyone really raise an eyebrow these days to either abortion or being a single parent? Certainly not in my social circle.

There must surely be a way without going back to Magdalen laundries of even considering the possibility of early adoption.

@NiceGerbil

Erm.

I've been talking in generalities mostly.

I did look up the stats though and was really taken aback. As I have explained on the thread.

In general women/ girls do not want to give up newborns.

I have no idea obviously of the circs of the mother but if in general there are factors leading to the large adoption rate in USA which may include social/ financial pressure when it comes to newborns then that bothers me. I don't know. But it feels off.

We're mammals. Mammals that have just given birth are generally accepted to be important to/ connected to the baby/ babies they have just given birth to.

Even if humans are different (and why would we be) the question always needs to be asked.

Not asking the question can lead to enormous harm.

As has been seen in situations in the past.

Of course it's ok to ask questions. I think the issue is that people have repeatedly explained to you that it's not an apples to apples comparison with the UK, infants are not being given away by their mothers willy-nilly, and higher doeesn't necessarily mean worse. What it does mean is that more children have legal parents. But you keep harping on the numbers.

In my personal circle, I know:

1.My brother adopted out of the foster system

1. A brother in law adopted from Asia
2. A child adopted by his grandmother who will see his birth mother regularly. (this was a solution reached after years of the mother being unfit in order to provide the child stability)

None of these were adopted as infants, and none of them would likely have been adopted in the UK. The UK just doesn't have the same culture of adoption. Transracial adoptions (like my first two examples) are also a lot less likely.

Just like the hospital images don't make sense in the context of a UK ward where after birth mothers are on a ward after birth with multiple other mothers and usually don't even stay a day, the US numbers don't make sense in the context of UK culture.

This doesn't mean that women giving away their babies because they are unsupported, or less supported than in the UK. In fact, having been the mother of young children in both countries, I'd say it's about the same overall.

There are women in the US who don't want an abortion for personal belief reasons but do not feel they are ready to be a mother. Perhaps there just isn't a population of women in the UK who have the beliefs that would lead to this decision.

There are posters on here who appear to think abortion is preferable to adoption
Haven't posted on this thread before but yes, I do think abortion is preferable to adoption of a newborn for the birth mother. But that's of little relevance to women with an unwanted pregnancy in much of the US.

@theThreeofWeevils

There are posters on here who appear to think abortion is preferable to adoption Haven't posted on this thread before but yes, I do think abortion is preferable to adoption of a newborn for the birth mother. But that's of little relevance to women with an unwanted pregnancy in much of the US.

I omitted to add "abortion is always preferable to adoption"

There are posters on here who seem to find it impossible to imagine the concept of a girl or woman who wants neither an abortion nor to keep the baby.

Disagree, I think there are posters that believe for them abortion is preferable to adoption.

Religion is a big reason in the US why some women choose not to abort

@KobaniDaughters

Disagree, I think there are posters that believe for them abortion is preferable to adoption.

Religion is a big reason in the US why some women choose not to abort

Really? There is post after post on how awful adoption is.

As Applejuju said there are women in the US who don't want an abortion for personal belief reasons but do not feel they are ready to be a mother. Perhaps there just isn't a population of women in the UK who have the beliefs that would lead to this decision

Yeah I guess there’s that, I was thinking more about posters like myself who have reiterated how less accessible abortion is in the US. I live here and have known gay couples choose adoption over surrogacy because a) one was himself adopted from birth and b) they feel there are a lot of babies out there that need homes without bringing another into the world. The culture over abortion and adoption is wildly different and I think that @NiceGerbil in particular is refusing to accept that and insisting that there is an underlying pandemic of forcing pregnant to give up their babies at birth

Yes of course I keep 'harping on' about the numbers!

Because they are facts. And ones that make me interested in finding out more about what is going on with this in USA. A huge topic but it's interesting.

I said in an earlier post that cultural factors that are likely alien to most women in UK are likely involved.

I'm not in a position to decide what I think yet. That's fair enough.