Why are they in a hospital bed? (Adoption related)

[FightingtheFoo]

I just want to be clear this has nothing to do with the parents in question being a same-sex couple. I feel equally about surrogacy whether it's Kim Kardashian buying a baby or Pete Buttigieg.

With that disclaimer:

Why on earth is he posing in a hospital bed?

I just find the absolute airbrushing out of the woman who actually carried, nurtured and gave birth to those babies for 9 months horrifying.

https://twitter.com/PeteButtigieg/status/1434167993769111552

The whole situation with children in care is awful.

You can't force people to adopt certain children though.

Improving the care system massively in the UK is a must with the amount of abuse that goes on.

‘1 in 25 people in USA adopted.
3 in every 100 in Indiana’

This is really shocking.
Is this because there isn’t good financial and social support for pregnant women and new mothers?

Well who knows.

The numbers feel very high.

Googling earlier I found out USA is by far and away the main country for international adoption.

Is adoption much more a thing there for some reason? I have no idea.

I have a feeling there's some cultural/ historical thing going on here.

It's a massive and complicated topic though.

@NiceGerbil in fairness it has been reiterated by several posters now that the cultural difference in terms of the cost of medical care, lack of insurance, lack of availability of abortions, no social safety net, stigma surroundings abortion and single motherhood are all plentiful reasons why it is likely that adoption is a bigger “thing” in the US than the UK

@NiceGerbil

Well who knows.

The numbers feel very high.

Googling earlier I found out USA is by far and away the main country for international adoption.

Is adoption much more a thing there for some reason? I have no idea.

I have a feeling there's some cultural/ historical thing going on here.

It's a massive and complicated topic though.

For many Americans an international adoption is cheaper than a domestic one. In the UK a domestic adoption costs around £30 (medical note from your GP), where as in the US the average adoption costs $50-60,000. My friends are facing around $16,000 for each of their three foster children. In some places parents are charged a % of their income with a minimum value added, 20% isn’t uncommon.

International adoption starts from around $15,000, thats a huge difference. Interracial adoption is also much more common in the US, where as its generally avoided in the UK, so in the US it is far more usual to see children who don’t share an ethnicity with their parent/s.

@NiceGerbil

The whole situation with children in care is awful.

You can't force people to adopt certain children though.

Improving the care system massively in the UK is a must with the amount of abuse that goes on.

The care system in the U.K. really isn't rife with abuse. There are issues with some children's homes and of course some foster carers are abusive, but the numbers are really very small. The main issue with the care system in the U.K. is not enough carers. Children get placed with carers who aren't a good match, or they get placed with whoever will have them while a good match is found, which can lead to several changes of placement, or the only good match is 100 miles away from their school and friends etc... Children often don't achieve permanence in foster care because the carers aren't there to meet their needs. That's the main issue and it's not easily solved. Being a foster carer isn't a normal job, it's not for everyone.

@MNHQ why was my post deleted? Genuinely don’t know what I said that could possibly merit a deletion?

Close your eyes I was thinking of the issue with young people leaving care mainly. I've read about a lot of problems over the last few years re where they are put to live, sexual exploitation.

@NiceGerbil

Close your eyes I was thinking of the issue with young people leaving care mainly. I've read about a lot of problems over the last few years re where they are put to live, sexual exploitation.

Absolutely. But if you get it right earlier in their lives they have stability, family and support. The will is there to pay foster carers to keep their care leavers post 18 but if the relationship isn't there the young people don't want to stay.

The UK carer system does seem a bit overwhelmed...www.theguardian.com/society/2021/aug/11/revealed-englands-pandemic-crisis-of-child-abuse-neglect-and-poverty

It sounds as if a lot of vulnerable children are falling through the cracks and huge cuts in the care system. It seems that a lot of children are at home with dysfunctional parents who are not capable of caring for them in the simplest ways, such as getting them to school and the system is taking up to a year even to get them into the care system when they need it. I am definitely all for parents' rights and hate state interference, but the reason for non-intervention in this case sounds like budget cuts, not an actual policy.

I don't think either system is ideal, and I think both fail vulnerable children. Because vulnerable children and families are complicated, and it is difficult to make the right decision about where to draw the line correctly at where parental rights end and children's rights begin. But I don't think it's entirely one sided which system works better.

@FTEngineerM

I just find the absolute airbrushing out of the woman who actually carried, nurtured and gave birth to those babies for 9 months horrifying.

Shall we make a ‘women who give up babies’ section in the newspaper or something? 🤷🏽‍♀️🧐 don’t get what you want.

I don't understand why people are being so nasty toward the op. She made a valid point. The two men posing with newborns in a hospital bed is unsettling. The bed in a maternity hospital is for the woman who has given birth or had a c section. No Of course she doesnt want an ad in the paper for the mom but the two dads couldve had photos taken sitting on a chair. What ever the woman and young girls reason for giving her babies up for adoption is it doesnt make her scum of the earth. She probably had no choice and in America in some states you can actually buy a pregnant womans baby. There was a documentary on it. Some women are extremely impoverished and have enough children to provide for as it is, some have issues with drugs or extremely difficult circumstances. Its possible these guys paid a poor woman for her babies and shes in agony over giving her babies up. It is also possible that they did get her to get off her bed so they can lay in it for photos. Whatever you you cut it the photo of the guys in a hospital bed is insensitive.

I'm not fussed about the place the photo was taken or the family photo pose at all.

What I have become concerned about is from birth adoption in the USA, what the mechanisms are. The fact that it seems 50/ 50 businesses to adopt and businesses to help find birth parents.

That it's twins as well.

Oh just read.

'What ever the woman and young girls reason for giving her babies up for adoption is it doesnt make her scum of the earth'

Where on earth did you get that from?!

@NiceGerbil

I'm not fussed about the place the photo was taken or the family photo pose at all.

What I have become concerned about is from birth adoption in the USA, what the mechanisms are. The fact that it seems 50/ 50 businesses to adopt and businesses to help find birth parents.

That it's twins as well.

Oh just read.

'What ever the woman and young girls reason for giving her babies up for adoption is it doesnt make her scum of the earth'

Where on earth did you get that from?!

The person I was responding to made a flippant remark "Shall we make a ‘women who give up babies’ section in the newspaper or something? 🤷🏽‍♀️🧐 don’t get what you want."

"women who give up babies" as simplified like that as though theres no circumstances or reason. Women who give up babies, its a sentence that trashes those women. Women who have abortions are praised and women who choose adoption are trashed. Neither of them should be. Get the fook out of the hospital bed, you didnt just give birth, the woman who had to lay there, putting aside her own dignity, in excruciating pain, blood, water mess, exhaustion. Whats not to celebrate a woman who goes through all that to bring life into the world whether she gives up for adoption or raises them. Not "women who give babies up"

'Women who have abortions are praised and women who choose adoption are trashed.'

Where have you seen this? I mean not just on here but in general?

In the context of many parts of USA it's the exact opposite surely?

@NiceGerbil

'Women who have abortions are praised and women who choose adoption are trashed.'

Where have you seen this? I mean not just on here but in general?

In the context of many parts of USA it's the exact opposite surely?

I've noticed on many platforms that its popular and acceptable to see the woman who chooses abortion as empowered and the woman who chooses adoption as "women who give up babies". A lot of judgement and cruelty, dehumanising and misogynistic in that sentence.

Which platforms?

Can't be on here as very few babies indeed are separated from mother at birth.

Are you talking about USA forums?

I think women are concerned about the social and financial reasons that could lead to a mother doing that.

The stats for Indiana show that as having a baby outside marriage has become more acceptable, the number of babies (children?) available for adoption has dropped off.

That sort of thing is a worry. It shows that many women were doing it because of social pressure. That's not good in any way.

@NiceGerbil

I think women are concerned about the social and financial reasons that could lead to a mother doing that.

The stats for Indiana show that as having a baby outside marriage has become more acceptable, the number of babies (children?) available for adoption has dropped off.

That sort of thing is a worry. It shows that many women were doing it because of social pressure. That's not good in any way.

Whatever a womans reason is for abortion, adoption, raising a baby is her business and no one should judge her. She deserves compassion and respect.

Women are judged harshly no matter what side is doing the judging, left or right. I was speaking about the liberal and most popular crowd, the left. Whether you are left or far left women are judged harshly for bringing a baby to term and seeking adoptive parents, the judgment is misogynistic because the woman went through the indignity of pregnancy and birth instead of "cleanly" and "responsibly" going for an abortion. She is judged for giving the baby up.

Indignity?

Cleanly????

Where are you getting this stuff from? It's not from this thread that's for sure.

If you want to discuss attitudes (in the USA?) then links would be helpful. Because the USA culture esp in certain States is just totally alien.

And yes of course it's a massive problem when women and girls give up their babies as soon as they're born due to outside pressures.

You saw the news items about the England mother and baby homes recently? Operating until into the 70s I think it was.

Elderly women still in tears talking about it. Traumatised by what happened. Never stopped thinking about, wondering about, missing their babies. That is a problem. Not a magical sodding gift.

@NiceGerbil

And yes of course it's a massive problem when women and girls give up their babies as soon as they're born due to outside pressures.

You saw the news items about the England mother and baby homes recently? Operating until into the 70s I think it was.

Elderly women still in tears talking about it. Traumatised by what happened. Never stopped thinking about, wondering about, missing their babies. That is a problem. Not a magical sodding gift.

where are you getting "magical gift" from?

Liberal and popular crowd????

I have no idea what you're on about tbh.

Neither the left nor the far left talk about adoption much at all. Unless something like that mother and baby homes thing comes up. Or if the topic is children in care and even then it's more about failures in care/ protection.

Where are you hearing UK people insulting women whose babies are adopted at birth (!?) and talking about indignity??

Celebrate bringing life to the world.

Address the actual points please.