Why are they in a hospital bed? (Adoption related)

[FightingtheFoo]

I just want to be clear this has nothing to do with the parents in question being a same-sex couple. I feel equally about surrogacy whether it's Kim Kardashian buying a baby or Pete Buttigieg.

With that disclaimer:

Why on earth is he posing in a hospital bed?

I just find the absolute airbrushing out of the woman who actually carried, nurtured and gave birth to those babies for 9 months horrifying.

https://twitter.com/PeteButtigieg/status/1434167993769111552

You simply have not differentiated @CloseYourEyesAndSee between
the US and U.K. which surprises me if you are a social worker. It also surprises me that if you are in that career. You’re not more supportive of adoptive parents and adoption…..

Stepping away from this thread now. It’s too upsetting.

@MummyJ12

You simply have not differentiated *@CloseYourEyesAndSee* between the US and U.K. which surprises me if you are a social worker. It also surprises me that if you are in that career. You’re not more supportive of adoptive parents and adoption…..

You've totally misunderstood my posts. Completely. I've also said nothing at all about adoptive parents. I'm not sure why you are taking my posts personally and making them about you. They really aren't.

@MummyJ12

You simply have not differentiated *@CloseYourEyesAndSee* between the US and U.K. which surprises me if you are a social worker. It also surprises me that if you are in that career. You’re not more supportive of adoptive parents and adoption…..

You are being very unfair to closeyour, she hasn't said anything remotely unsupportive of adoptive patents. You are reading things that aren't there.

Quick sum please do check if you want!

2k babies adopted Indiana every year
81k births

I make that 2.5 per 100 births adopted at birth.
Or 25 in every thousand

That tallies pretty well with the nearly 3 in every 100 children living in Indiana living in adoptive families of one sort or another.

Everything about those numbers shouts something going on there with this.

@PurgatoryOfPotholes

Oh for goodness sake.

The picture is intended to imitate the traditional picture of a tired-but-relieved woman sitting up in a hospital bed with a baby. In those pictures, she is in bed because she has either given birth vaginally (exhausting!) or has just had surgery, and she is a patient.

People are finding this picture instinctively disquieting because when two men have a baby, whether through adoption or surrogacy, we know neither of them has been through labour, so why are they lying on a hospital bed as if they're patients? If it was two women, you'd naturally assume, unless told otherwise, that at least one woman had given birth, and the other was being a loving partner supportive her wife/partner.

As it is, it is setting off the subliminal faking-illness alarm that many people with a bit of life experience have.

Yes unless one of them are ill it's very odd to be sat in the bed

When you adopt a newborn in the United States it os very common to be handed the newborn at the birth and get to take the baby home from the hospital. There is still a waiting period. It varies by state. In some states it is short. In some it is quite long. At any point during that waiting period the mother can change her mind and adopting parents will have to simply hand back the baby. It’s something you have to be prepared for when you adopt a newborn and it’s a big part of why many people choose surrogacy instead of adoption. I’m not arguing for surrogacy. I’m just stating a fact, that the waiting period is terrifying, but necessary.

I still think it’s better for the baby and to be with the intended parents during that period even if they might get their hearts broken because it’s better for the baby. If the baby returns to the mother, then the baby’s experience is no different whether the time was spent in foster care with random foster parents or potential adoptive parents, but it the baby stays, the baby gets that extra time with the adoptive parents.

@NiceGerbil

Quick sum please do check if you want!

2k babies adopted Indiana every year
81k births

I make that 2.5 per 100 births adopted at birth.
Or 25 in every thousand

That tallies pretty well with the nearly 3 in every 100 children living in Indiana living in adoptive families of one sort or another.

Everything about those numbers shouts something going on there with this.

Many many of those 2,000 children are not babies. The 2,000 includes children who are adopted at all ages. Child who are wards of the state are very likely to be over 2 years of age when they are adopted.

For private adoption and surrogacy, the adoptive family gets their own room on the ward while the baby is looked after. Usually for at least 24 hours. The wait period for the birth varies by state, but usually at least 30 days before she can consent. It’s normal for the adoptive family to use the bed. They sleep in it! How surprising.

In rare cases, a child can become a ward of the state at birth. Usually because the parents have previously caused the death (or something else extreme) of another child. Even in those cases, the foster/adoptive family would not have a room (thru don’t even know a baby was born until they get a phone call from the state asking if they want a placement) and the adoption cannot be finalised for a year.

Oh cool do you have a breakdown? I've been looking but I can't find one even on the Indiana gov site although I may have missed it obv

@NiceGerbil

Oh cool do you have a breakdown? I've been looking but I can't find one even on the Indiana gov site although I may have missed it obv

Although I did look it up before posting, this also comes from what I know personally.

In 2012, 1,663 where adopted in Indiana (www.in.gov/dcs/reports-and-statistics/dcs-adoption-statistics/ ) and 1470 where adopted from foster care ( childwelfaresparc.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/Indiana-ADOPTION-FACTS.pdf )

And from personal experience I find that it is rare for children to be adopted from foster care before two years of age, because children are really removed at birth, the families are usually worked with with the child still living in the house before a child is removed, and a child must be legally removed for a year before parental rights can be terminated and an adoption can take place.

To clarify, 1470 out if a total of 1,663 where adopted from foster care (so the majority were not private, infant adoptions)

In the US system, it takes a minimum of three months to a year once a child is actually placed in your home. The three months is for the government to visit and see how you are bonding, as well as for the birth parents to change their minds. Most adoptive children are not babies. There are large numbers of children in every state who need adopting but do not have homes, who are older. I would be astonished if that is not true in every country. Here is information on Indiana. I see no sense in placing a child in foster care rather than with adoptive parents--if the adoption is not finalized, then the baby will go back to the birth mother anyway, and if it is finalized, then the baby will be with parents who really wanted the baby, not foster parents who are caring, but who are less likely to be as enthusuastic as people who want to build a permanent bond with the child.

That's very reassuring thank you.

I think I need some more looking into the whole thing. It still leaves the question of the large % of children adopted. And the reason for all the adoption agencies and find your parent agencies.

I've relaxed a bit thank you still something interesting I've found out and will continue looking for info on due to all the above.

One reason for all the adoption agencies is because many state governments have privatised doing home studies and managing foster and adoptive homes (I don’t like this, I think it leads to less oversight and also allows religious agencies).

The number of children adopted also includes children who are adopted by a kinship placement. These children are usually still with biological family.

The way to decrease adoptions, both through the state and privately, is to increase the social safety net. Better support for mothers, especially through childcare.

I think it's great that they are adopting two babies. It gives them the chance to parent and the women the chance to live her life how she sees fit. Who cares what they are sat on? They've just become parents and wanted a nice picture.

I don't like how the OP has framed this at all.

I think adoption is a superior solution to children lingering in the foster care system, which is a problem both in the US and the UK. www.theguardian.com/society/2019/dec/05/england-adoption-rates-fall-as-numbers-of-children-in-care-rise

It is possible that in the UK, it is actually too hard to adopt children, and that there may be many suffering because they can't get permanent homes. www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/mar/10/adoption-numbers-falling-children-need-care-system

The numbers in USA are so massive though.

It's worth looking into rather than assuming they have it right and UK does not.

1 in 25 people in USA adopted.
3 in every 100 in Indiana

Those are huge numbers.
It's a massively different society with differences around so many things.

I personally want to know more before deciding what I think.

I mean sure our system isn't perfect not saying it is.

Just that the numbers are crikey. And so needs more looking and thinking for me.

Given the laws on surrogacy abortion etc I suspect it's all rather complicated and there's some big cultural differences. Variations between States would be interesting as well.

[quote PrincessNutella]It is possible that in the UK, it is actually too hard to adopt children, and that there may be many suffering because they can't get permanent homes. www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/mar/10/adoption-numbers-falling-children-need-care-system[/quote]
The threshold for care is far too high in the UK, in many cases birth parents are given too many chances and contact being maintained isn’t always appropriate. We can’t undo trauma, but we could be reducing the amount of trauma a child suffers.

A friend in Tennessee has three foster children, in that area when a child/ren are removed the birth parents are supported to make changes for six months, if they fail to do so or progress is minimal the children then generally don’t return to their care. It is still a very long process, their foster children have been with them for over two years and they still don’t have a date for their final hearing.

[quote PrincessNutella]It is possible that in the UK, it is actually too hard to adopt children, and that there may be many suffering because they can't get permanent homes. www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/mar/10/adoption-numbers-falling-children-need-care-system[/quote]
Actually there are more approved adopters than children available to be adopted.
Older children are not usually suitable to be adopted. Adoptive placements do not work well with children who have strong memories of their families and understand their life story better.

I think this is all pretty apples and oranges.

The fact is that children in care in the UK tend to have a difficult/terrible time.

There is more of a sense that unless things are really bad a baby/ child is better off with a parent or other family member.

I don't know what outcomes the care system in USA has. Or what the threshold of removal is.

I don't think without a lot of really good info on both here and there it's not right to decide.

The number of posters convinced that the USA stats situation etc is definitely better is strange to me.

Gonna look at Europe to see what some other countries are like.

I'm saying that it is probably better, if possible, for a young person who is in foster care and who is never going to be able to return to his or her family because it is too dysfunctional, to be adopted than to linger in foster care. Older children often have difficulty with adoption--that is why people want the babies. But a lot of these kids really need love, stability, and a second shot at family life.