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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions
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EsmaCannonball · 03/09/2021 19:14

Andy Ngo is right-wing and the New York Post is a tabloid is another take doing the rounds on this. Left-wingers have been protesting in favour of the serial sex-offender, and the left-wing press has totally ceded the arena, so I see this as more of a cause for left-wing shame.

merrymouse · 03/09/2021 19:19

Andy Ngo is right-wing and the New York Post is a tabloid is another take doing the rounds on this.

Not however a take that changes the facts in the police report.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 03/09/2021 19:38

Is this a serious question or just desperation?

Rhetorical question Grin

Blackandwhitehorse · 03/09/2021 19:45

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OldTurtleNewShell · 03/09/2021 19:50

@EsmaCannonball

Andy Ngo is right-wing and the New York Post is a tabloid is another take doing the rounds on this. Left-wingers have been protesting in favour of the serial sex-offender, and the left-wing press has totally ceded the arena, so I see this as more of a cause for left-wing shame.
Quite. The fact that this is being reported more accurately in the right wing press and not the left isn't because of some triumph of the right but rather that there has been a massive failure on the part of the left to hold our own to account
NecessaryScene · 03/09/2021 20:01

isn't because of some triumph of the right but rather that there has been a massive failure on the part of the left

Quite. In a post above I wrote about the NY Post: "Textbook journalism, making other outfits look like idiots."

First draft had "brilliant journalism" before I realised, no, this is fairly standard stuff. It only seems brilliant because the Guardian et al seem incapable of it.

RedDogsBeg · 03/09/2021 20:19

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GrumpyMiddleAgedWoman · 03/09/2021 20:38

[quote MargaritaPie]Is "nypost" daily an actual reliable news site? It kindof looks like "worldnewsdaily" or those other sites that are just satire made-up stuff.

The daily mail has posted an article too but I'm not seeing anything on the BBC or Sky or any actual news site.

btw Microsoft's newest browser Edge now warns visitors to the daily mail that it is not credible: www.theguardian.com/media/2019/jan/23/dont-trust-daily-mail-website-microsoft-browser-warns-users[/quote]
My eyes have rolled so far that I am looking backwards.

Is that the best you can do? I suppose it must be, because you've gone suspiciously quiet.

Eyewitness testimony from consistent and credible female witnesses.
Eyewitness testimony from consistent and credible male witness.
Police report.

But it never happened, yeah?

Fitt · 03/09/2021 21:00

It's interesting that the police report says that Darren was identified during the police investigation of the women's reports.

They must have shown the women pictures of known sex offenders for that to happen.

The reality and the "progressive" hoax story are a million miles apart.

I used to frown at the "loony left" moniker. Sadly it's a thing!

NecessaryScene · 03/09/2021 21:25

The reality and the "progressive" hoax story are a million miles apart.

It doesn't seem like it would have been the hardest case to solve in this instance.

I guess the police response was along the lines of "A man in the women's spa? Well, let's just flick through our database of known offenders... Ah, our old friend Darren. Right, let's get him in."

Thank goodness they didn't go for the "go away, you lying bitch" approach, as currently favoured by some of the least reliable parts of the media.

ArabellaScott · 03/09/2021 21:30

Women are not here to validate men, protect men, take a hit for men - we are not validation tools, human shields or collateral damage.

Yep.

Fitt · 03/09/2021 21:38

Sally Hines can surely use this in her feminist education. She can set an assignment on how unfashionable women who react badly to sex offenders and police who have records are all on the wrong side of history. I'm sure little OJ will be a guest lecturer explaining how this is old fashioned bigotry.

Darren is their poster child now, their innocent and misunderstood person they rushed to protect.

This is prime gender studies material.

FloralBunting · 03/09/2021 21:39

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NecessaryScene · 03/09/2021 21:40

Jesse Singal's done a full piece skewering the media now

Some Mainstream Outlets Can't Even Perform Basic Newsgathering Functions Anymore

Subscribers only, but here are excerpts:

So: As I noted in my last article, Slate, The Guardian, and other outlets published articles about the Wi Spa incident focusing mainly on the theory that the whole thing was likely some sort of right-wing hoax. Believing it was a hoax required ignoring a fair amount of evidence that something had happened, and exaggerating the strength of the evidence favoring the hoax theory.

So that’s what these outlets did.

How was Ngo able to beat all of them to the story?

Simple: He was in a position where he was free to go wherever the facts led, and to report on what he found. Most of the other reporters weren’t — or so I would argue. As I mentioned in my last piece:

"It’s noteworthy that Levin is one of the coauthors on an article by a trio of Guardian US employees harshly criticizing their British counterparts for an unsigned editorial that dared to suggest there could be some tradeoffs to self-ID in that country, and which referred to that editorial as ‘transphobic.’ Of course a reporter who believes that even discussing this possibility is tantamount to transphobia is not going to be able to cover a fast-moving, ambiguous story centered on these issues fairly, and sure enough he doesn’t."

Sure enough, Levin failed to do his job here. Now he has to play catch-up.

In most cases, the process was likely more subtle than that. But I promise you that everyone working on this story at a mainstream outlet understood that if they came to the ‘wrong’ conclusion, it would cause them a lot of drama — at best, some visceral unpleasantness and accusations of transphobia on Twitter.

So they decided not to do their jobs. They didn’t do the normal stuff you would do to try to find out if an alleged illegal act had been committed by, say, a conservative. And this isn’t top-flight journalism or anything. I mean, good for Ngo for getting the story, but finding out someone has been charged with a crime is not a particularly noteworthy achievement for anyone who has experience reporting on criminal justice.

Now, though, Andy Ngo gets to present himself as the one journalist willing to handle this story professionally — and rightfully so. And all the other outlets involved should be feeling pretty humiliated. What do you think this sort of thing does to trust in mainstream outlets in the long run?

Imagine three years ago someone said to you, “There’s a complicated, controversial, fast-moving controversy unfolding. The Daily Beast, The L.A. Times, Slate, The Guardian, other outlets are on it, as is Andy Ngo, an independent journalist with little real institutional backing. Who’s going to get the story? You can place bets on Ngo, or on the field — that is, anyone but Ngo. Who do you choose?” Laughably easy bet, right? Not anymore. Not now that mainstream outlets have decided to forego basic newsgathering activities.

ScreamingMeMe · 03/09/2021 21:54

It's starting to hit YouTube now.

pecanmix · 03/09/2021 21:55

It's almost as if we predicted this sort of shit would happen... fucks sake

MrsOvertonsWindow · 03/09/2021 22:03

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Fitt · 03/09/2021 22:26

Haha, I like RuinedLeon. He sounds exactly like a Mumsneter.

OvaHere · 04/09/2021 00:49

Another good substack piece. No paywall on this one.
voidifremoved.substack.com/p/the-guardians-ideological-dead-end

NiceGerbil · 04/09/2021 04:05

@Radiatori

There are laws in lots of places in the US that prohibit convicted sex offenders from being in the presence of children. I expect that's irrespective of sex. So maybe that's the law that was broken.
Any chance of posting the relevant law in LA/ California?

In a busy city it would be pretty hard to never be near any children.

There must be specific situations etc.

Also if a person has offended against adults- women or men. Then why a law to keep away from children? What about their actual target group?

How would it even begin to be policed?

NiceGerbil · 04/09/2021 04:08

@Beowulfa

How do the brains of all those who dutifully recite TWAW actually process information like this? What would be the actual trigger point for them to look like Bob Hoskins at the end of The Long Good Friday?
Plenty of reaction is

This is an unfortunate incident.

An outlier.

The major concern is whether it will impact trans rights.

In the end I think anything dodgy that happens gets filed in. Not real trans. Women and girls get attacked anyway.

In this case. Look they reported and police are on it. Great. As it should be. No problem.

NiceGerbil · 04/09/2021 04:18

On the don't know what to believe thing.

  1. In LA where businesses etc must respect gender id on self declaration by law. A male person used that to go into a place where there were naked women and girls

Or

B. There was some kind of complex hoax involving multiple women to come out and complain about penis in the women's spa. It was cooked up by (insert group here). The hoax involved a minor (seen in the original video). None of the women in the spa came forward to say no penis all nonsense.

?

This is why we believe you happened. (Now seen as a sign of misandry).

So many people so ready to believe multiple women were lying. Then that option a happened. Even though that's far and away the most likely. Nope. Evil nasty women lying about sex offences.

NiceGerbil · 04/09/2021 04:19

The fact is that darren has a point. By law allowed to be there.

That law will be going nowhere.

So. Possibly things in California going to get even worse for women and girls.

Cailleach1 · 04/09/2021 07:41

If there are laws against indecent exposure, yet those males who proclaim id as women are exempted, then there is some contradiction in the laws. I imagine every male who is up for indecent exposure will now proclaim id as a woman. It is a charter for sexual abusers.

merrymouse · 04/09/2021 08:17

@Cailleach1

If there are laws against indecent exposure, yet those males who proclaim id as women are exempted, then there is some contradiction in the laws. I imagine every male who is up for indecent exposure will now proclaim id as a woman. It is a charter for sexual abusers.
And how much more thrilling when you can exert control in the full knowledge that women have no power to complain, and will be vilified if they attempt to do so.