Do we have it anywhere on record that Stonewall does/does not support people to express their sexuality as exclusively homosexual?

[JustcameoutGC]

The expectation that lesbians accept partners with penises was one of the things that really made me start questioning gender identity politics more closely.

Exclusively homosexual lesbian spaces have disappeared as viewed to be transphobic. Just look on any lesbian dating apps and many of the users are male and be-penised. Some may be fine with this, but all of my lesbian friends are not, and they feel very disenfranchised, but equally they feel unable to speak out. Just look at what happened in Manchester.

I just can't wrap my head around how the prevoiusly stalwart and highly effective champion of gay rights has now essentially outlawed exclusive homosexuality.

Have they made any statements that make this stance clear? Have they actively said they do not support exclusively homosexual spaces?

**would you agree that if a lesbian says "I will not date or have sex with any male people, including transwomen" then that's perfectly reasonable? ''

Yes, totally.

You can also say 'I will only date people of colour, I won't date any man under 5'8, I couldn't date a fat person, I only date asian women, I only date men who make more than 50k a year, I'm only looking for a vegetarian, etc.**
Implying sexuality is a "choice" shows appalling homophobia. This is hateful speech.

Looking back to get this quote also reminded me that I, and I think others, asked for evidence that the 'vast majority' of trans people have stood up and defended victims of the abuse and harassment lesbians have received if they don't agree with it?

To make it very easy, where is the evidence that the lobby groups have issued statements that lesbians clearly stating their boundaries should be respected and not abused by their members?

Anything?

This is a concerted attempt to undermine and erase the sexual orientation of lesbians. Lesbians in the traditional sense of biologically female people only attracted to other biologically female people. It is pure homophobia

Bilinda, you came on this thread to deny it’s happening and then proved you’re a part of the phenomenon.

You don’t support these lesbians’ rights to support and representation. You don’t recognise that theirs is an actual sexual orientation, with all your dreadful false equivalences. You are attempting to portray it as a prejudice, a bias that is somehow distasteful and on a par with racism. You are determined not to accept it as an orientation. It’s sickening,

I’m raging. Floral, I’m so angry that you and other lesbians have to contend with this. After all you’ve been through already, to have this from the “community” that’s supposed to support you, be for you - it’s nightmarish.

''Hello, could you please explain to me how transwomen are women? Ta ever so.''

I will, I've thought a lot about it, but I will want to phrase it well, so at some point you'll get my answer. This is not a dodge.

This board in particular goes out of its way to misrepresent the vast majority of trans people by maintaining an overt focus on a minority viewpoint and then attempting to extrapolate from this that is some sort of official position of a broader community.

You, yourself, have just said it's better if lesbians remain quiet about their sexual orientation!

At the same time as maintaining this view point is not a minority one!

No one needs to go out of their way to do anything. You're doing it all for us.

@BilindaB

''Hello, could you please explain to me how transwomen are women? Ta ever so.''

I will, I've thought a lot about it, but I will want to phrase it well, so at some point you'll get my answer. This is not a dodge.

Genuinely looking forward to it as I wonder also if it has changed any since you have been engaging with us on multiple threads.

Thank you BilindaB

I would not use the phrase 'male people, including transwomen' because that is unnecessarily inflammatory, given that many transwomen do not consider themselves male people, and a large section of the public, whether you like it or not, affirms that.

I'd hazard a guess that quite a few of 'the public' get the terms mixed up and think you mean 'woman who want to transition to manhood'. That's certainly the case among quite a few people when I've mentioned it.

It's impossible to define 'transwoman' without mentioning that they are male. I don't mean impossible to explain it to those steeped in the terminology throughout school and via the internet, but try explaining it to my MIL, for instance.

''You are attempting to portray it as a prejudice, a bias that is somehow distasteful and on a par with racism. You are determined not to accept it as an orientation. It’s sickening,''

You've got nothing. Just a degree in mental gymnastics.

I was friends with a lesbian couple. One of them went through a bit of a crisis and identified as a trans man. They went through with the full surgery. As soon as they had a penis, it broke their partner's heart because they couldn't deny they weren't attracted to them anymore. She had absolutely no wish to be anywhere near a penis. She tried and tried to be supportive of them, but as their voice started deepening, their breasts were removed and they started growing facial hair, she found herself completely turned off. She ended their relationship on the grounds that she is a lesbian and they aren't a woman any more. They understood completely and they themselves are vocal about lesbians and gay men being perfectly entitled to be same sex attracted and not attracted to trans people. There are enough trans and Pansexual people in the world for everyone to find a partner. They also don't like trans "allies" screeching that anyone who doesn't want to have sex with trans people is transphobic. As they say, not one person in the world is owed sex from anyone else and nobody should have to pretend to be attracted or frightened to say they are or aren't to anyone. That's what gay people have already been through, and now suddenly they're being forced through it again by the militant woke. Almost every gay person I know is utterly horrified by the trans agenda. Many trans people have been vocal about how they do not support this mindset that everyone who doesn't want to fuck them is bigoted and have then been called bigots themselves.

If someone tried to "re-educate" me on who I was attracted to, they'd be told to fuck off. My trans friend said people should find these screeching harpies some OAP porn and call them ageist and bigoted if they refused to watch it.

You've got nothing. Just a degree in mental gymnastics.

Haha! Well, that's the equalities act told. 🤣

I wasn't saying the two were comparable, I was listing preferences that are considered ok, some that maybe aren't and saying if you can have these preferences, of course you should be able to be specific if you are gay or lesbian, it's much more important and should be beyond criticism.

Well, you’ve got chutzpah, I’ll give you that! 😂

You've got nothing. Just a degree in mental gymnastics.

Hilarious projection.

Bilinda can we also expect an apology for your homophobic comments along with your explanation of how a transwoman is a " woman"

So is there a legal case for exclusively same sex attracted lesbians who have been denied access to onine dating forums and the like to sue for denial of service based on sexual orientation? I would dig like crazy for that one.

I will, I've thought a lot about it, but I will want to phrase it well, so at some point you'll get my answer. This is not a dodge.

I'm sure it will be totally convincing and not at all like all the other absurd special pleading we've heard from trans activists and their supporters.

So is there a legal case for exclusively same sex attracted lesbians who have been denied access to onine dating forums and the like to sue for denial of service based on sexual orientation? I would dig like crazy for that one.

Yes I would think so.

@Ereshkigalangcleg

I will, I've thought a lot about it, but I will want to phrase it well, so at some point you'll get my answer. This is not a dodge.

I'm sure it will be totally convincing and not at all like all the other absurd special pleading we've heard from trans activists and their supporters.

But we've had 'anyone who says so', and something about shifting constellations.

Apart from anything else, it's very telling that although TWAW is bandied about willy-nilly, bilinda has no clue what it actually means. And, despite thinking a lot about it, still has to has to go away to think some more!

And this is supposed to get written into laws and policy!!

@BilindaB

I wasn't saying the two were comparable, I was listing preferences that are considered ok, some that maybe aren't and saying if you can have these preferences, of course you should be able to be specific if you are gay or lesbian, it's much more important and should be beyond criticism.

Did I not give you the answer you wanted when I said 'yes, totally?' Are you looking for a row, whatever I say? It's tiresome. Don't be tiresome.

If you weren't comparing them, why bring them up?

I'm not looking for a row. I'm, quite honestly, demanding that lesbians can say openly and without apology or qualification that they are lesbian and that it is simply accepted that they are under no obligation whatsoever to be open to males, not even the subset of males who believe themselves to be female. That they don't have to be circumspect about saying they are lesbian in case someone finds it offensive or hurtful. Because homosexuality is protected by law. And nothing like racism, which isn't.

Surely, if you believe TWAW and that everyone who doesn't believe it is a MN outdated bigot, the reason for this should be fairly easy to explain? Otherwise the expectation that everyone should share this apparently complex belief doesn't seem particularly reasonable?

Not sure where the MN came from but I imagine the pp thinks it's appropriate

If someone tried to "re-educate" me on who I was attracted to, they'd be told to fuck off. My trans friend said people should find these screeching harpies some OAP porn and call them ageist and bigoted if they refused to watch it.*

Why do I have the feeling that some of these apologists for homophobia, might exclude ageism as a discriminatory position.

Like they exclude misogyny.

I'm sure whatever I write won't convince anyone, as you are all 100% convinced otherwise. There are things we can debate, things you can say that might make me reconsider things I might think, but I've been around the houses on why I think TWAW (not here, elsewhere) and I know it's going to be pointless.

@BilindaB

I'm sure whatever I write won't convince anyone, as you are all 100% convinced otherwise. There are things we can debate, things you can say that might make me reconsider things I might think, but I've been around the houses on why I think TWAW (not here, elsewhere) and I know it's going to be pointless.

Correct.