Gay man 'bullied' off Manchester Pride for wearing LGB Alliance hat and t-shirt

[Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g]

LibDem activist delighted by this. Here are two of her tweets. The gay man who turned up in an LGB hat and t-shirt was allegedly advised by police to leave for his own safety and seems to have had the hat stolen.

Another young fool tweeted that 'bullying the guy in the LGB Alliance shirt who came to the protest march is my favourit part of Pride so far xx'. He has since deleted this (possibly because he is now sober and/or has seen how many people had reported this to his employers) and now claims he was just chanting 'Trans lives matter!'. 'Bullying' is an odd choice of words for this. How could anyone think admitting publicly to 'bullying' was a good look?

The LGB Alliance man has been advised that people shouting at him is actually assault if he wants to take it further. Doesn't sound like he does, though.

Unedifying, to say the least.

And Stonewall are lobbyists not activists - they take advantage of activists - but their modus operandi is to fly under the radar to push through legislation that they know would be unpopular if held up to public scrutiny.

@HeddaAga

He asserted that he was a supporter of the LGBA, which says only that he supports the views and aims of a particular organisation.

Which is clear that it supports gay, lesbian and bisexual people. That an organisation supporting this group of people and by default same-sex attraction has become the 'enemy' is symptomatic of the batshit situation we're in. One that denies biological reality and exists because of countless academics postulating, in order to earn a crust and feel self important, and organisations like Stonewall trying to keep the funding flowing in.

Stonewall says that it supports gay, lesbian and bisexual people too. Does that mean that shouting at someone in the street for supporting Stonewall (although I am sure you would never do that) would constitute "homophobic assault"?

This is actually a great example, and the most appropriate counter-example I've seen so far flipping this onto the "TRA" side. I mean this in all seriousness: I do not think that someone who knew what Mermaids were and disagreed with their methods, who shouted at someone in a Mermaids t-shirt, would be being transphobic. Because Mermaids, like LGBA, is an organisation which has a specific focus and set of political/etc aims.

Okay so you might think this but I guarantee if this happened and you posted such an opinion on Twitter or wrote an Op-Ed in the press saying so you would immediately be excommunicated and face a ton of harassment. You'd probably even get your own Owen Jones tweet thread!

Well, sort of. You are right that if someone genuinely thinks that LGBA exists only to support the rights of gay people and so on

Which this man does

is perfectly legitimate to consider them non-transphobic and to support them and do whatever.

Which this man did

But the flipside of that is that it is perfectly legitimate for other people to think that LGBA's focus and methods are unnecessarily down on trans people. And if that is someone's view, then shouting at a person wearing an LGBA hat in the street is likely to be because of that disagreement over methods and aims, rather than because they hate that person for being gay.

And I assume you think it’s also perfectly legitimate that many people think the LGBA is not unnecessarily down on trans people, and therefore those that are calling wearing clothing with the charities brand a transphobic aggression, or that the charity itself is transphobic, are wrong? Because it’s all down to interpretation?

@plodalong12

Well, sort of. You are right that if someone genuinely thinks that LGBA exists only to support the rights of gay people and so on

Which this man does

is perfectly legitimate to consider them non-transphobic and to support them and do whatever.

Which this man did

But the flipside of that is that it is perfectly legitimate for other people to think that LGBA's focus and methods are unnecessarily down on trans people. And if that is someone's view, then shouting at a person wearing an LGBA hat in the street is likely to be because of that disagreement over methods and aims, rather than because they hate that person for being gay.

And I assume you think it’s also perfectly legitimate that many people think the LGBA is not unnecessarily down on trans people, and therefore those that are calling wearing clothing with the charities brand a transphobic aggression, or that the charity itself is transphobic, are wrong? Because it’s all down to interpretation?

Something being all down to interpretation doesn't mean that people are not allowed to have their own interpretations. That is my point.

Let's frame this another way. Do you think that it is a legitimate point of view for a gay person to disagree with LGBA on the grounds that their methods and focuses are too focused on the trans/sex/gender debate?

You can disagree with whatever you want. You can even be entirely ignorant of the organisations goals / purpose / mission statement. Which it seems that you are. But you don't get to harass people in the street because they have different views to you. Well you can. But there are potential legal consequences to that behaviour. And I hope there is for the people who thought that was ok to do that.

I do not think that someone who knew what Mermaids were and disagreed with their methods, who shouted at someone in a Mermaids t-shirt, would be being transphobic.

Quite a few people have lost jobs and work for doing far, far less, on the basis that they are transphobic.

@Quaggersx

Let's frame this another way. Do you think that it is a legitimate point of view for a gay person to disagree with LGBA on the grounds that their methods and focuses are too focused on the trans/sex/gender debate?

You can disagree with whatever you want. You can even be entirely ignorant of the organisations goals / purpose / mission statement. Which it seems that you are. But you don't get to harass people in the street because they have different views to you. Well you can. But there are potential legal consequences to that behaviour. And I hope there is for the people who thought that was ok to do that.

I'm afraid I simply disagree with you that an organisation gets to define itself such that any disagreement with them has legal consequences.

Anyway, I've spent too much of an (admittedly overcast) Bank Holiday discussing this with you all. It seems like nobody has persuaded anyone but at least you have my alternative perspective. Thanks for (largely) discussing in good faith – have a good one.

doesn't mean that people are not allowed to have their own interpretations

They are allowed to have their own interpretations. We all are. What they aren't allowed to do is threaten and assault people on the basis of supporting a gay rights organisation. Just like we can't go around threatening and insulting people because we disagree with their wearing of Mermaids or Gendered Intelligence t shirts due to what we think it represents.

Stonewall says that it supports gay, lesbian and bisexual people too.

Why don't you ask Stonewall if it supports same sex attraction? Then ask if it's transphobic to only be attracted to a person of the same sex, not the same gender? See what answers you get...

but at least you have my alternative perspective

We'll file it with all the other minimising of the bullying and assault of this man for standing up for LGB people.

@andrelax

Do you have any words of concern for Alexander? He's somebody's son, and he was subjected to robbery and assault.

This is a parenting site. Many of us have children, and some of those children are L and G, and we are worried for their futures, too. Will they be subjected to aggression if they are openly same-sex attracted?

This is an account from elsewhere. I don't want that happening to a daughter of mine or anyone else's daughter, and I will never back down.

extract

A few years ago, I used to play a MMORPG in which I joined a LGBT guild because I wanted a place where I could be myself without risking being harassed or bullied if people found out that I am a lesbian. I had a great time in this guild and made a lot of friends.

About 3 months after I joined, a transwoman in the guild sent me a private message in-game asking if I would be interested in dating her. I politely declined. She asked if it was because she was trans and I said yes. I tried to explain as nicely and politely as possible that I just can’t deal with penises, male bodies, and male voices. I just can’t find them attractive, especially penises because just seeing them brings up memories of when I was raped as a child. She demanded that I date her anyway and threatened to tell everyone in the guild that I was transphobic if I didn’t. She also demanded that I send her nude pictures of myself. I refused. I took screenshots of the chat log just in-case, logged off, and went to bed feeling awful.

While I was asleep, the transwoman did exactly what she said she would do. She told the guild’s leader that she asked me for make-up advice and that I responded by saying she could never look like a real woman and that I had called her a bunch of slurs. When I turned my PC on the next day, I was greeted by a message from the guild leader in the guild’s group chat on Skype (this was before Discord existed) that I was going to be removed from the guild because of my alleged transphobia. I denied it and a few of the other members came to my defense, saying it didn’t seem like something I would do, as I was always very friendly to everyone. I sent the screenshots of the chat log thinking it would clear my name, since she straight up said she was going to lie about me. Instead of focusing on that, the discussion shifted to me refusing to date her. I was told, by people that had been my friends for months, that my “genital preference” was transphobic and that I should just get over my trauma or just kill myself. I was told that even if I am not attracted to her, I have to date her to affirm her identity as a trans lesbian. I was given an ultimatum, date her or be removed from the guild. I refused and was kicked out.

From that point on, I was bullied by my former guild-mates whenever we happened to come across each other in-game. When I joined a new guild, the transwoman and the leader of my old guild found out. They messaged the leader of my new guild and told him that I was a racist and was using hacks. This was shortly after there was an outbreak of hackers using an exploit in the game to delete parts of another player’s character data causing their characters to become corrupted and unable to be logged into (great Korean free-to-play MMO security pretend-thumbs-up-emoji) and there was quite a bit of paranoia amongst the community because of it. I was kicked from that guild too. The in-game bullying continued for a bit and I eventually quit a few weeks later.

I was bullied in school for being a lesbian when I made the stupid mistake of reading a lesbian romance manga in class. The internet was my escape from that, where I could be myself without being afraid. I’ve tried to join other LGBT and lesbian focused communities on sites like reddit but ever since that incident with that MMO guild and similar things I’ve seen happen to girls on places like /r/actuallesbians, I have been afraid to admit that I don’t find transwomen attractive. I’m afraid to tell my LGBT-supporting friends, no matter how close we are or how long we’ve been friends. I’ve tried using dating sites and it seems like most of the lesbians on there are predatory transwomen that demand sex. I’ve been feeling pretty lonely and depressed, often thinking about suicide.

Continues: oursuperstories.com/i-was-given-an-ultimatum-date-her-or-be-removed-from-the-guild/

@Ereshkigalangcleg

but at least you have my alternative perspective

We'll file it with all the other minimising of the bullying and assault of this man for standing up for LGB people.

and for confirming that in 2021 it is acceptable to assault and harass someone on the basis of the clothes they were wearing.

Anyway, I've spent too much of an (admittedly overcast) Bank Holiday discussing this with you all. It seems like nobody has persuaded anyone but at least you have my alternative perspective. Thanks for (largely) discussing in good faith – have a good one.

LOL. Just LOL.

It seems like nobody has persuaded anyone but at least you have my alternative perspective. Thanks for (largely) discussing in good faith – have a good one.

A perspective that is common amongst many trans activists. I'm not unfamiliar with it. I strongly disagree with the lack of logic that surrounds it, and the harm that in turn it causes.

Enjoy the rest of your day.

If a gay person suffered discrimination at work on the grounds of their sexuality, that would be protected by ss. 12 and 39 of the Equality Act, which I wouldn't change.

Not if sexuality cannot be defined objectively. This is what Stonewall are campaigning for. Subjective gender identity over sex, so no meaningful protected characteristics. It's just another version of 'all lives matter'. My wish to have my sense of self affirmed (I just don't want to identity as a boring heterosexual person anymore) is more important than your rights.

I don't get why he had to leave was it because he didn't have LBGT an only had LGB?

I do not think that someone who knew what Mermaids were and disagreed with their methods, who shouted at someone in a Mermaids t-shirt, would be being transphobic.

Mermaids would likely disagree with this. May I remind you all that one of the staff (a woman who identifies as cis) at Mermaids attempted to have a transwoman (Miranda Yardley) prosecuted for transphobia for disagreeing with her on the internet?

It was the very first prosecution for transgender hate crime in Britain. The judge dismissed the case on the first day, but obviously that didn't reverse all the stress she'd put Miranda through, because time isn't reversible.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6764763/Britains-transgender-hate-crime-trial-halted-one-day.html

It seems like nobody has persuaded anyone but at least you have my alternative perspective.

Unfortunately I don't think you are familiar enough with the issues involved to present an alternative perspective. You have talked a lot about possible motives for the attack, but not engaged with issues around language and rights.

Crikey, where would we be if there were never any men coming to FWR to offer an alternate perspective that minimized and dismissed female perspectives and blamed assault on what people were wearing? Thank goodness some of them still perform this service.

It's especially good when they are "legally qualified gay men" so our own opinions on points of law or gay, lesbian and bisexual rights can be dismissed without any particular evidence other than anecdotes.

But what if they have lesbian friends that disagree with you?

@FloralBunting

Crikey, where would we be if there were never any men coming to FWR to offer an alternate perspective that minimized and dismissed female perspectives and blamed assault on what people were wearing? Thank goodness some of them still perform this service.

They NEED us to know that there's an 'alternative' (same old) perspective.

Just had a notification that my LGB Alliance T-shirt is in the post. You can imagine how reassured I am that someone who is legally qualified has insisted that if I were to be assaulted while wearing it, it wouldn't be because I'm a lesbian who refuses to submit to gender ideology. Warms the very cockles of my spleen, so it does.

@FloralBunting

Crikey, where would we be if there were never any men coming to FWR to offer an alternate perspective that minimized and dismissed female perspectives and blamed assault on what people were wearing? Thank goodness some of them still perform this service.

😂 yes, what would we do without their special and valuable contribution.