10yo Daughter wants to go to pride

[NeedDDadvice]

Deliberately posted on sex and gender topic. Please don't move

Yes, I name changed. I want advice free of my previous posts on Mumsnet. I am an old poster of the COD and Riven era!

My 10yo daughter who has pictures of all sorts of flags on her bedroom wall, asked me to take her to pride.

My response was yes, if I can find a family friendly one. She asked what might be inappropriate and I said men dressed in leather dog suits. We both laughed.

She doesn't have a label yet but is so interested in the pride flags.

She thinks that because I don't believe in gendering, that I am Transphobic. Which is ridiculous. As I pointed out if I don't believe in Christianity that doesn't make me Christianphobic.

All my children have been raised to look for evidence, to debate ideas, not to blindly fall into an ideology.

I am worried about this blind faith in trans and LGBT+. I believe in the Lesbian, Gay and Bi sexualities but the rest is personalities or gender woo woo.

She is very like me at that age wears so called boy clothes etc. I have been very clear that it doesn't matter what DD or my DS wears from any department. Clothes, haircuts mean nothing to me, as a 70's kid.

I don't want her to be sucked into gendering and lose the ability to debate and research the evidence and looking for the science and reality of the subject.

I will start to take her to any womens right march's locally and of course find the best family friendly pride event to attend as well.

How do I help her keep her mind working?

Ps. I said I didn't care if she brought a woman or a man home to meet us in the future but I would struggle not to lol if they quote a genderism label at me. (A joke, I will of course be very welcoming to any new member of our family)

Pride isn't suitable for children, I would go so far to say it should be 18+ only. It is a highly sexualised display under the guise of being 'inclusive' and 'diverse' and a 'fun day out'.

That's just not true. I and many other posters here have posted about being at their local Pride events where literally nothing was sexualised. Bouncy castles, balloons, ice-cream and some 70/80s disco are not sexualised and not unsuitable for children.

While there are Pride events unsuitable for children, which obviously includes having kink on display. There are many events perfectly fine for children. And it's actually pretty suspicious that so many posters are insisting that only one kind exists, in spite of multiple posters repeatedly stating they attend the latter.

While there are Pride events unsuitable for children, which obviously includes having kink on display. well the point surely is that you don’t know before you go. It’s like letting your kids go to a pg movie and then saying “but some bits of the movie might be rated 18”. I wouldn’t choose Pride as a good outing.

There are plenty of local Pride events OP that are nice family days out. If you and your DD are near South Manchester on September 4th I can recommend Didsbury Pride (it has a FB page but I can't figure out how to do a clicky link). Agree that city centre Prides are not for 10 year olds but others are fine

@5zeds only if you're a bit of a muppet and don't do any worthwhile research. Surely as a parent you'd speak to other people that have attended, email the organisers, look up the thousands of photos and videos from previous years...

@SirenSays or you could just go somewhere that doesn’t sometimes include overt sexual displays?

@5zeds you mean like every single pride event I've ever attended that let children attend..?

I believe the picture of the ‘pups’ playing in a tent (one with a visible erection) with children is from 2019 Lancashire pride.

The two police officers with the two men in fetish wear is from Brighton pride 2016.

I have no doubt that some much smaller village-type pride events may be fine. But my DB and his DH refuse to take their dc to any pride event anymore. He says it’s become less about showing that they are just the same as everyone else, and more about kink/straight people with a fetish.

@5zeds

While there are Pride events unsuitable for children, which obviously includes having kink on display. well the point surely is that you don’t know before you go. It’s like letting your kids go to a pg movie and then saying “but some bits of the movie might be rated 18”. I wouldn’t choose Pride as a good outing.

There are plenty of ways to get a good idea. You could ask for recommendations for a genuinely family friendly Pride event in your vicinity. You could check out the online photo albums of the most recent couple of Pride events. You could ask the people you know who have attended. You could find out who the organisers are, which could give you a very good idea of how the event is likely to be run.

You can't guarantee anything but one time I went to what was advertised as a fun children's event. It had a weird vibe and I pretty quickly that it was being run by evangelist American Christians. I left with DS once I realised, but most people stayed and the local news was full of interviews with angry parents about the depictions of graphic violence and suicide as part of it's show.

I'd never attend an event with my DS without keeping my eyes open and leaving as soon as I get an inkling something isn't right. I take him to our local Pride as it has always been fine, I know some of the people involved in planning it and I'm aware of who the main organisers are and what type of people they are. I keep my eyes open both for anything overly sexualised by participants and in case there is any homophobic hostility. And I'm ready to remove him and talk to him about why if necessary.

Personally I think you have give her way too much information to process in the hope she doesnt feel constricted in later life - which because of her immature mind (she is only ten) will piece it together wrongly. ( her saying that every one needs labels)

Our kids know that women can love women and men love men and you can wear any colour thats about it. 9 & 6

That comprehensive list you gave about what your dd is aware of OP is a lot.

Also I'd give mainstream pride a miss at this age. Its changed massively in the past few years and there is a lot of kink that gets through to family events . Like the Sisters of indulgence at a family event getting men to taste flavoured condoms on sausages and banana whist they are on their knees whilst kids were walking passed. Great pic of Nicola Sturgeon with her arm around them too. Then there was the reading time at a library when men dressed up in furry outfits with massive dildo flapping about.

We have a same sex couple in our family, they are now only taking their kids to small pride events that have been organised by women. You might be able to find some info on these if you go on to Feminism facebook groups in your area or LGB groups.

For me anything with 'T' tacked on will be unpredictable and mostly have misoginistic elements like men walking about with 'Kill a turf" t shirts on.

Well I haven’t been to every single Prode event you’ve ever attended with your children @SirenSays have I? Are you suggesting that there aren’t sometimes overt sexual displays at Pride?

AND
Do you imagine if you phoned up and asked someone who thought dressing up as a dog with toys for children in the way that has been seen they would tell you their stall was unsuitable for children? Seriously?

@5zeds No, I'm telling you as a straight up fact there are plenty of pride events that are suitable for families. Most people are capable of doing research to find out what events are suitable for children. That's why it's always the same photos of the pups posted here every summer every time someone mentions pride.
The only unsuitable things I've ever seen at pride events have been at after hours parties, in nightclubs with door staff and security. Certainly no children allowed.

No, I'm telling you as a straight up fact there are plenty of pride events that are suitable for families. and plenty that aren’t so I wouldn’t go with small children. You are welcome to do masses of “research” and do what you like.

@SirenSays it can only have been the last two summers that that first photo has been brought back up again. You know, the one where a man with an erection is encouraging young children to stroke a nearby dog.

That man certainly wouldn’t tell organisers/concerned parents beforehand that the event would be VERY unsuitable for children and predatory.

I did say in my post that I’m sure some much smaller pride events are fine, but I also understand the lesbian/gay families who are very reluctant to have anything to do with pride as it is widely seen now.

I don't have a stance on whether Pride always is or isn't a family friendly event. I strongly feel that daytime Pride events should be places where a 14 year old same-sex attracted teenage girl should be able to attend without seeing men with girlfriends on leads.

But what's irking me here is this underlying idea that meticulously going through available photos of who turned up to previous years' events tells you who will turn up this year and what they will do!

I think experience of the previous events by the same organisers, in the same town will mean you can predict what the next one will be like with high accuracy. But there will always be an element of chaos. You can never know who will attend this year. It's actual people meeting up, not a pre-scripted play.

Men in chaps with their buttocks out. Rubbermen, leaving very little to the imagination, some of them leading or being led around in collars and on chains. Drag queens everywhere, a lot of them glowering at women. Men and women in leather and rubber, toting whips and canes. Men dressed up like something from a Tom of Finland drawing. Men dressed up as little girls. Harnesses and leather and rubber fetish wear for sale. Stalls selling sex toys and people who've bought them walking around waving dildos etc.

That was my last experience of Pride about a decade ago and I encountered a lot of women heading home early because it didn't feel like a great place to be a lesbian. I think there's also, for me, an issue of all the straight people and their children coming out to gawk at an image of LGB that's nothing to do with my life as a lesbian.

Well isn’t it lucky that nobody is forced to go to Pride, and clearly the OP is expecting the worst so probably will not go. I’m glad that there are other posters on this thread who like me, find this one of the ways to normalise same sex families and have also somehow (apparently miraculously) managed to avoid that group of pups. Makes me think I should shake off the COVID crowds nervousness and find a small Pride event to go to with the kids in the next year.

But what's irking me here is this underlying idea that meticulously going through available photos of who turned up to previous years' events tells you who will turn up this year and what they will do!

I think experience of the previous events by the same organisers, in the same town will mean you can predict what the next one will be like with high accuracy. But there will always be an element of chaos. You can never know who will attend this year. It's actual people meeting up, not a pre-scripted play.

Why would it irk you when I specifically said there are no guarantees. Stated I had found myself with my child at an unsuitable event, though because of religious evangelism. And described what I look out for at Pride events and know exactly what would make me remove him immediately?

I wouldn't. In my country Pride over the last number of years has made a habit of demanding organisations like libraries get rid of books they don't like or refuse to rent space to people they don't like. Plus they are huge supporters of idiotic gender ideology. To me it's basically supporting an organisation that's actively working against freedom of thought in the most practical and concrete sense way.

Even apart from that, they way Pride seems to think about sexuality is within the framework of Critical Theory, and is very insistent that being non-discriminatory means supporting specific political views (a certain view of trans rights being one) and that's not what I want my kids to absorb. Nor am I keen on the general tone of the event, which is always touted as family friendly here, but in actually is essentially a sort of sex festival where "Love Is Love" is all over the place.

Ten is VERY young. There are loads of other days out that I bet she'd enjoy far more, when it boils down to it.

I suppose you could maybe tell her that you'll consider it next year, when she's at secondary school, but possibly sneak a visit yourself & see what you think.

@NeedDDadvice

I am just wary of banned things become more desirable.

It doesn't look like you're banning her from anything. But do explain that some things are appropriate for adults only and explain lightly the reasons.

Would you be ok if she said she wanted to watch a very violent/gory movie or porn?! Of course not. It's definitely banned for very good reasons

That said, maybe Pride should be family friendly!!! they are in the street..... if you can't take your 10yo to it, what about the people who just happen to be walking down the street and didn't know there was a march going on?

@grey12

That said, maybe Pride should be family friendly!!! they are in the street..... if you can't take your 10yo to it, what about the people who just happen to be walking down the street and didn't know there was a march going on?

You could certainly argue that an event that is mainly for adults with potentially inappropriate for children elements shouldn't be happening in an open public space.

She's 10 - just say no if you are not comfortable. Why debate it ?

trancepants

I think my comment was directed at SirenSays
only if you're a bit of a muppet and don't do any worthwhile research. Surely as a parent you'd speak to other people that have attended, email the organisers, look up the thousands of photos and videos from previous years...

My parents would just have said no and that I could go when I was old enough to take myself. Same would have applied to any festival, carnival, theme park etc. You don’t have to “ban” something to not want to go to it.