Those are four concrete examples ... against the thousands of concrete examples of ill-treatment of transwomen by those born as men, or as women.
Thousands are there? Could you post a link or two to some of these examples of ill-treatment of transwomen by women? I can only think of one, where Helen Islan (woman) harassed Miranda Yardley (transsexual) and took Yardley to court on a charge of transphobia. I agree, this was an appalling series of events, but I can't think of any others which have been in the news. (You won't find many people on here supporting Islan, though.)
There isn't any way around this: Women who are born as such are the privileged; trans women are the oppressed minority. 'Natal-women' aren't the oppressed here. They're just not. The figures prove that abundantly. Transgender women are.
What figures? Can you post them to support your assertion?
Get back to me when you can show even the slightest scintilla of sympathy for trans women, hmm? smile Or at least pretend it?
I was very sympathetic towards Miranda Yardley in the case mentioned earlier.
Myself, and as I've said: I've never even noticed a transwoman in a women's toilet or changing room. I haven't looked out for one, either. The only thing I've ever looked out for in either situation is any sign of danger. I've had that, quite a few times, to be sure - from drunken teens, for instance - but never, ever from someone who's struck me as a transwoman, or man dressed up, or whatever other category of once-or-still male you might want to mention.
So because you've never experienced something, that means it can't possibly have happened to anyone else? Is that what you're saying?
Frankly, this discussion is, for me, one of the silliest I've ever seen within the general area of 'feminism'. Trans women have always used women's loos and changing rooms. They always will, no matter what legislation. The legislation that has been passed, however, in favour of transwomen (mostly in the USA) has demonstrably not harmed women born as females. It's barely even there.
Tell that to the women in Californian prisons, where they are now handing out condoms because they know the women are being raped.
www.womensliberationfront.org/news/ca-womens-prisons-anticipate-pregnancy-sb123
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4298610-Good-to-see-the-California-Prison-service-is-taking-their-responsibilities-seriously-much-sarcasm
There are also men in women's prisons in the UK.
Men who want to harm women aren't going to get stopped by a sign on a toilet door. Of course they're not. Also, men who want to harm women aren't going to go to the trouble of dressing as women in order to do it. Why on Earth would they?
Great argument. "Men will rape women anyway, so why not make it easier for them". Are you Ruth Hunt?
Dressing as women? What's that? We are now told that TWAW even if they look no different from any other men. Have you never heard of Danielle Muscato or Alex Drummond?
Enough of this utterly childish silliness. Know thine enemy. I think it's time we grew up about transwomen, don't you think? These debates, to me, increasingly look like 'Aha, though pro-transwomen legislation works in practice - does it work in theory?'.
Works in practice? You think women in prison deserve to be raped?
It's risible. We aren't in danger from trans women. We are in danger from predatory men. None of those are going to give the first damn about any faux pas of going into a women's toilet in order to do their vile stuff.
And how do we tell the difference between a genuine transwoman and a man who is pretending?
Whatever. Me, as I've said: what all my senses tune into is whether or not I feel comfortable, in a women's toilet or changing room. I know if there's hostility around me. I think most of us do - we women develop that intuition - we have to.
Re that: I've never had the intuition of hostility from anyone I've recognised as male, or trans-woman, in a women's toilet or changing room. But, by god, I do get that hostility right here, on this forum. I see that a consensus was developed, long ago, and anyone who questions it in even the slightest way, is fair game for viperous sarcasm at least; blatant aggressiveness at worst.
Interesting that you don't see intelligent discussion and thoughtful arguments. Many women here started off with a similar attitude to you, but as they learnt more about what is happening they realised that there was no place for complacency.
My friend who is a trans woman - who most here seem to have forgotten, it seems, the better to make all this an impersonal sort of discussion - is one of the kindest, nicest people I've ever met. I'm never, ever going to put the hostilities of natal-women (whether they be of the radical feminist, or the simple prejudiced, conservative kind) above her simple, ordinary need to take a pee or get changed.
If this person is as nice and kind as you suggest, with empathy for women and their needs, they presumably don't use female-only spaces. I assume they are campaigning for third spaces if they don't like using the correct ones for their sex.
As I say, though: I do recognise the atmosphere of hostility, first and foremost, wherever I am. The consensus here is against trans women, and people are very clear that they're going to show it. It's not something I feel the need to engage in. So ... that's all from me.
Nobody is 'against transwomen'. They, quite rightly, have the same rights as everyone else, and nobody here wants to remove those rights. But male people don't belong in female only spaces. People can't change sex.
So now you're off because you know you don't have any evidence to back up your assertions. What a surprise.