Welsh Government: Transgender people are people who are born as one sex but are the other sex

[OldCrone]

This is from the new LGBTQ+ Action Plan for Wales: easy read version

Transgender people are people who are born as one sex but are the other sex. For example, a person who looks like a man on the outside may be a woman on the inside

This is one of the documents for the current consultation about the new LGBTQ+ Action Plan.

I decided to look at the easy read version and the young people's version since the standard version didn't seem to have any kind of glossary about the terms used. The easy read version does, but some of the definitions, like this one, don't make sense. The young people's version, like the standard version, has no glossary.

In a consultation about LGBTQ+ people, the Welsh Government appears to be unable to define clearly what terms like 'transgender', 'gender identity' and 'non-binary' actually mean.

[OldCrone]

@AtlasNeverShrugged

Who do we email to complain about this?

The Ministers who have put their names to this are Mark Drakeford, Jane Hutt and Hannah Blythyn.

[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected]

If you're in Wales, you can write to them. You could also write to your constituency MS as well as those for your region.

Anyone can respond to the consultation (you don't have to be in Wales). The last question is:
We have asked a number of specific questions. If you have any related issues which we have not specifically addressed, please use this space to report them:
You could put any comments about misleading and bizarre definitions in there.

[BaronMunchausen]

@TheWeeDonkey

A Welsh person is anyone who identifies as a Welsh person Jaysmith71 💫👍

Owen Hurcum says "you are Welsh if you feel Welsh".

[ErrolTheDragon]

a person who looks like a man on the outside may be a woman on the inside

I suppose that part might make sense if they were referring to a 'passing' transman ... but I rather fear they mean a non-passing transwoman.

But, whatever... the sex you are born with is the sex you'll live and die with. If you're a human or any sort of mammal.

[Aparallaxia]

'a person who looks like a man on the outside may be a woman on the inside'

So how do they define 'man' and 'woman' here? Outsides only? Obviously not. Insides only? No, because that doesn't explain what it is to 'look like a man'. Not both insides and outsides at once, as this 'person looks like a man on the outside' but 'may be a woman on the inside'.

If I look like a man [which I don't] then there must be something, viz., a man, to whom I can be visually compared. Equally, there must be a way of looking like a woman on the outside too, and so a woman around for a visual comparison.

You could say that all we're doing is comparing outsides. There is no such thing as a man or a woman, only 'looking like a man', and we decide what that means by, er, comparing outsides. 'Outsides of whom?' we ask.

crickets

[IdrisElbow]

@Ritasueandbobtoo9

This confirming my belief that Welsh Government is full of thickos.

Yep 🤦🏻‍♀️

[Abhannmor]

Perhaps the Welsh government's policies are informed by the Romance of Taliesin. You can become anything you think you are - after drinking from a magic cauldron of all knowledge!

[guinnessguzzler]

Arrogant and offensive. Can you imagine having to work with these truth twisters?

It's amazing how often that civil service tweet applies.

[Jaysmith71]

In a lost chapter of the Mabinogion, the tale of Cerys the Shepherdess, broad-shouldered and able to carry two ewes under each arm. The boys in the village would tease her, until she punched them out cold.

Lonely, sad Cerys wandered the hills with only her sheep for company, until a wizard came and said, Cerys, you're actually a bloke, and I can help you....

TBC

[DdraigGoch]

@BreatheAndFocus

If our outside body she’ll can hide a person of the opposite sex, why could it not hide another species, or another age of human - or indeed anything we want.

I thought this was a problem with identity politics, but it’s actually the whole point of it - you are what you say you are, be that the opposite sex, an elf, a toddler, a wolf, and anyone who questions you or expresses disbelief is just being horrid.

I remember a Doctor Who episode where the Mayor of Cardiff was a Slitheen wearing a woman's skin. Perhaps the truth is just as strange as the fiction.

[WinglessSonglessBird]

I don't think the affects of all this in societies are truly going to be known for another 10-20 years--when the kids ages 5 through like 15 are adults. The kids now are gonna display the real ramifications, good or bad, from this. Cuz the kids are the ones, being so young, who will be massively influenced by this on a government, medical, school, societal, social level and will have grown up with it, some in the full midst of it, so it will be more of their set culture than us adults. Same with the kids who were really young when the internet/social media REALLY boomed. Sadly, it seems people, and especially kids, are being used for a mass psychological and physical experiment in some ways. Governments must have been infiltrated. Think it's crazy? Not really. Think of Nazis in ww2 for example.

And yes, what's to stop anyone from identifying as anyone/anything? Maybe you can be and are something else you're not on the outside cuz really how would I ever know. That part doesn't seem to be the issue to me. It's the encouraging the bodies to change. And also encouraging by LAW to force everyone else to cater to it, to an unreasonable level. You may, in mind/psychologically feel like something else, but in Earth, physics, reality you are not. Maybe everyone has a need for their outer self to match the inner? However that is society's fault for not accepting people as they are and for so much focus on appearance (and stereotypes--like, dude likes dresses means he's a girl). This shit could go down a dark rabbit hole. Say someone identifies as a giraffe. Ok. Well couldn't some insane government strip their human rights away? They are not TRULY human after all, just appear to be. Grim possibilities.

If someone feels like the opposite sex in their mind. Cool. So what. They want to dress like the opposite sex. Cool. I think society is WAY too focused on outside image, appearance and this is big part of this problem. Even the poor TW and TM cannot even function within themselves, some of them, without having their appearance match their inner self. My appearance does not really match my inner self but I accepted it. Now some want surgery, again, cool, up to you. Why the whole campaign and trying to basically grill the mass public to find out whose outer self does not match their inner? If the individual cares they can do what they feel is best--physically change, or not, or identify however.

Perhaps there is an explosion of people who do not look like their inner self and it is causing huge distress. I don't see why screening kids for this is helpful? At least not the surgeries for young kids. The issue should be on accepting BOTH your inner and outer selves for who/what they are, even if they don't match. Maybe explore surgeries as an adult if it's for you.

It still seems to be that the focus is on external appearance. I don't think it's ultimately helpful. I wonder if people who physically transition feel much better percentage wise? All this seems to cause even more problems for TW and TM, makes them more anxious etc?

I think humans are becoming more and more dissociated from their bodies tbh. I know I am but for other reasons and not in a trans way, so I get it to a point. Some of this is, sorry, a result of decades of teaching people that their body is their only worth but don't ever take care of it cuz that's vain. Mixed messages about sex, body care, medical care. We are taught to ignore our bodies. We are also taught that any emotions are bad (unless you're a guy then anger is ok). I think MASS amount of humans are psychologically in shreds, and this has been building for generations. I don't have any answers.

[Skybluepinkgiraffe]

@LongBlobson

Has the whole world lost the plot?

It feels very Emperor's New Clothes, doesn't it?
I am baffled to live in a world where the notion that you can be born in the wrong body is even considered.
I can understand body dismorphia/gender dysphoria, what I find odd is the notion that it's all perfectly normal.
What other animal does this?!

[OldCrone]

@Dwrcegin

*Transgender people are people who are born as one sex but are the other sex. For example, a person who looks like a man on the outside may be a woman on the inside*

Feel so disappointed reading that. Green light for gas lighting imo.

The easy read version is for people with a learning disability.

This is telling them that they can't know what sex someone is, and that they shouldn't trust the evidence of their own eyes and ears.

It's also telling them that people can change sex.

Gaslighting of vulnerable people.

[WinglessSonglessBird]

I think it actually has become normal, the idea you are in the wrong body. And has been for a while, just not in this overt way, and not quite as overtly about gender.

Humans have become more and more dissociated from their bodies, with obviously not good results. I don't feel I was born in the wrong body, but to tbh, I've felt since very young that I shouldn't have been born in ANY body, like my soul is imprisoned, trapped into a body. It's kinda similar, but to an extreme level.

Honestly if there was a surgery to have NO body and just be your mind and soul floating around like a ghost or something, I'd be very tempted. So the people who feel they are in the wrong body, well that's a little more doable to "fix"/change.

I still think the mass majority of humans are having severe psychological breakdown, as a species.

This is our own fault, as humans. Humanity did this to itself. And when anyone anywhere tries to stand up to physical or psychological abuse, most humans are silenced. Well, we might be in a result of not dealing with real issues and not supporting and protecting each other. I bet most people have been shamed for having a body ailment or a mental health ailment, even from "professionals."

It's basically not safe to live in a body anymore. More and more are seeing that. However, bar changing identities and possible surgeries, we can't do shit. Well, we could: make it safe to be who you are, support people. Not shame their mental or physical sufferings. Since that's never happened for humans, the only option is to flee...your body. I wonder if TW and TM who have had surgery feel less dissociated from their bodies once they match?

Humans like things to be congruent so that's probably part of it.

I think too many people don't fit into society (cuz societies suck, for mostly everyone) and this has become a coping strategy. And tbh I think the focus on gender with all this is a result of so many people having been sexually abused or harassed, including generational trauma, made worse by the way societies train and treat girls and boys. Literally, humans can't take it anymore. However, like everything in "modern" mental/medical healthcare, let's focus on the symptom instead, or give a band aid, whilst shaming the patient. The humans are gonna self-implode at this rate. Extinction won't be the environment or bombs, it'll be implosion, imo, a dying off with a whimper. Hopefully things can change.

Also, the modern mindset of just shut up and take 12 pills for everything has done harm. Everything has been medicalized...now even gender. It's possible there are some drug companies behind the shadows with a profit and power motive behind all this. The whole antidepressant thing for example...yeah, that worked out well for humans, NOT. People take pills for all kinds of psych issues and humans are even more messed up. Same physically. I mean the usa, for example, is ranked below 10 for health for developed nations and it spends the most on "health"care. Health care has morphed into a business-profit-model like everything nowadays. Possibly some very vulnerable people are being bullied into being slaves to big Pharma or related industries, imo. And anyone who questions it is deemed, bigoted, intolerant, not following the science, "just trust your dr" We've seen this before (well, some have noticed).

Some people somewhere picked up the social fact that LOTS of people, kids and adults, are traumatized by the way society is towards bodies in general and the male sex and female sex, and identity issues of any variety. Someone somewhere is making loads of money off this, plus getting lots of power. The end game I wouldn't know.

[Skybluepinkgiraffe]

Humans like to be congruent

Absolutely. And this is what makes it so difficult when people are referred to as bigots when they 'misgender' a person.
It's hard when you can't name what you see.

[WinglessSonglessBird]

In a few years nobody is gonna know the truth of anything. And yeah, it is gaslighting. "Hey, see that guy over there? Well, you are wrong it is a girl." It's basically telling you to never trust yourself, only trust what others say to be true, the world is a mirage and not real. I've gotten those messages, young, though not from this gender stuff, but yeah, I see the point. It basically primes you to be the robot and do the bidding of anyone or everyone else cuz the world is mirage and your own self even shows you lies.

However, most might get to a point of, eff it, trust no one, not even yourself. (that's my philosophy as I've gotten older and it's much safer.) However the harm to kids is the bigger issue, they don't frickin know yet not to trust anyone or anything. However now they're being told to ONLY trust what OTHERS say, regardless on anything.

To be fair though, humans' sight is not the arbiter of Truth. Humans don't visually see reality anyway. We only see a small spectrum of visible light. And even then, what is "seen" is filtered through your own culture, knowledge etc. Most of Reality humans are actually blind and deaf to, if you wanna be technical. Seeing is not believing on a base level. Humans actually never see Reality. We only see our human-bound-illusion version of reality.

[Aparallaxia]

Wingless '. I wonder if people who physically transition feel much better percentage wise?'

Here is some reading about that question:

[Aparallaxia]

Sorry, that didn't display correctly:

www.heritage.org/gender/commentary/sex-reassignment-doesnt-work-here-the-evidence

[Ritasueandbobtoo9]

I think the governments of Wales and Scotland are being targeted. Our youth is being targeted. Women are being targeted. To what ends I am not sure but things that are happening near all the hallmarks of an oppressive totalitarian regime. We just don’t fully recognise it yet probably in the same ways the Germans didn’t realise what the Nazi’s were about until it was too late.

[Ritasueandbobtoo9]

See ‘How to become a tyrant on Netflix.

[TheSkatesOfCoachBombay]

As a Welsh person I can tell you, nobody cares about the WAG, most irrelevant public body that ever existed. A large majority of Welsh people didn't even know they existed till the pandemic 😂 Nearly 3 weeks on BBC Wales was spent trying to explain to the masses who the fuck Mark Drakeford was.

[EnfysPreseli]

I think yours is a minority view Skates but one that sometimes persists because we don't have a strong Wales-focused/Welsh media and many get their news and current affairs info from English media, who are still very bad at reflecting the reality of devolution. After over 20 years you'd expect the information about the work of a government and legislature that covers policy areas that impact Welsh people's lives so profoundly to be more accurate.

If you look at the scope of the draft LGBTQ+ Action Plan alone the reasons to be more engaged and less dismissive are crystal clear. We ignore this at our peril.

[OldCrone]

If you look at the scope of the draft LGBTQ+ Action Plan alone the reasons to be more engaged and less dismissive are crystal clear. We ignore this at our peril.

On page 8:
"we will seek to devolve powers in relation to Gender Recognition and support our Trans community."

They want self-ID in Wales. If they get this as a devolved power they will do everything they can to make this happen.

[DdraigGoch]

@TheSkatesOfCoachBombay

As a Welsh person I can tell you, nobody cares about the WAG, most irrelevant public body that ever existed. A large majority of Welsh people didn't even know they existed till the pandemic 😂 Nearly 3 weeks on BBC Wales was spent trying to explain to the masses who the fuck Mark Drakeford was.

Everyone knew who he was when he closed the pubs though!

Sadly they've rigged the electoral system so that they'll never get voted out. That's why they let children vote.

[MonsignorMirth]

I'm not being goady honest, but I'm interested in this @WinglessSonglessBird :
Honestly if there was a surgery to have NO body and just be your mind and soul floating around like a ghost or something, I'd be very tempted. So the people who feel they are in the wrong body, well that's a little more doable to "fix"/change.

What would you do/feel though? You couldn't see or hear, feel or say anything... what would you want out of this life? The thought of existing coma-like and with no perception freaks me out!

[EarthSight]

@TheSkatesOfCoachBombay

As a Welsh person I can tell you, nobody cares about the WAG, most irrelevant public body that ever existed. A large majority of Welsh people didn't even know they existed till the pandemic 😂 Nearly 3 weeks on BBC Wales was spent trying to explain to the masses who the fuck Mark Drakeford was.

@TheSkatesOfCoachBombay Eh?? What are you on about? As a Welsh person, I think you're talking nonsense. Everybody knows who WAG is, the exception being the very young or those living under a rock.