#AskRapeCrisisScotland

[MaudTheInvincible]

Is trending at number 1 in the UK at present. I haven't been around all day so I'm not sure what this has happened in response to and came here to find out, but there aren't any threads. Heart breaking reading these stories and the effects on rape victims who can't access support services because they've been excluded by male-centring policy.

MW is a liar with an agenda, and that agenda does not include any tolerance and understanding for women in distress. I'm not interested in being tolerant towards someone who disparages women.

Neither am I. Nor am I interested in being told to be nicer, kinder and more accepting of folk who have no intention of reciprocating.

Others may be happy to bend the knee, that's their choice, meanwhile the rest of us will not comply.

#NoThankYou
#WomenWontWheest

If I were a vastly rich care-free celebrity I'd announce that I were setting up female-only DV/rape refuges just over the English side of the border and providing free transport to/from major Scottish cities for women. For good measure, I'd also set up specialist transmen & transwomen facilities so everyone has a safe place to go when in need.

I see these arguments come up again and again - 'NAMALT, Mumsnet is so transphobic, you're accusing all transpeople of being predators, you're all so mean, why can't we all just be kind?'

Despite a heavy push from TRA's to reframe these discussions as 'anti-trans', it is not. It is pro woman. Women fighting to keep their established, legal single sex spaces.

Transpeople should be free to live their lives safe from discrimination and threats, be able to present how they like, wear what they like, live their best lives. But they shouldn't be able to access single sex spaces (however nice they are) because those are spaces for women and girls, for their safety and dignity.

But women pointing out this seemingly uncontroversial point are called violent slurs, told to 'die in a grease fire' and that they will get raped. It might be a minority of violent TRA's but they are very vocal and have established the chilling effect in society. The cry of 'transphobe!' has been very effective.

This is one of the only places women can discuss this and even this has to be anonymous. Generally, considered and well evidenced arguments regarding women's right. There is anger but very rarely actual transphobia. And even here, we are monitored, deleted and told to 'be kind'.

Someone upthread asked if there were any single sex rape crisis centres in Scotland.
Women and Girls Scotland are actively trying to establish this.At present it would seem no for Dundee and a yes for Clackmannanshire.

wgscotland.org.uk/

I saw someone pointing out the masculinity of the CEO -using a photo - which is unfair if they choose to live as a woman. Regardless of my beliefs or yours people are free to transition and if they choose too I think they should be able to live safely and with a level of acceptance . Much as I hope too- As a non trans person. A woman.from a non white background.
Maybe that’s why I am sensitive to what I see are comments beside the point. One bad egg does not make everyone the same. Not all trans folk are radical lunatics ( there are many ) who choose to live as they do and hope for a happy and fulfilled safe life … I think the anger I see and the awful comments make others unsafe who deserve to be safe . I think this is awful.

Women can be angry. It's not awful to be angry. In many cases, it's justified. When so many women are raped, sexually abused, that it's commonplace, I think its healthy to be angry.

I agree completely that everyone should be safe, and free to dress how they please, and live how they please, and love/have sex with any consenting adult who'll have them.

I am happy to live alongside men (and transwomen) in almost all situations, but there are some spaces, places and situations that I want a woman-only space. That's all.

Trans rights are human rights, absolutely. Trans people deserve all the same support, protection and respect as everyone else. I don't think you'll find many women here disagreeing, tbh.

Lurkermum we KNOW already that NATWALT. But the fact is this stupid, dangerous ideology is being pushed like mad across the world so that abusive, woman hating men like MW can dominate women, access the spaces and bodies of women and children, profit from self loathing and strip our remaining rights away. It matters nought if a few individuals are peace loving and private. The hordes of abusive men and the ridiculous, treacherous women who push this crap far outnumber these people and let's not pretend otherwise.

If a woman cannot demand a woman practitioner or space - then who is saying ‘no’? Who is telling her that she can’t? Why can 51% of the population be told no by the other 49%? How is this so? Why is she attacked for this and told that her feelings (as a victim) is trumped by someone who can never understand how she is feeling?

@lurkermum

I’m not appealing for Women to be nice . That’s an odd concept in itself . I guess I’m appealing for humans to be thoughtful I shared my opinion and thoughts which I presumed was the point of a forum. If I am alone in thinking some of the comments are off then so be it. I’m just really tired of the lack of sensible discussion learning and understanding / tolerance from all sides. It doesn’t help . I just find it all a bit sad. People should be able to make choices about how they live their lives , who they choose to be - but everyone needs to also learn tolerance and understanding. Including that CEO- including women . Including everyone.

This isn’t about ‘tolerance’, it’s about providing adequate and appropriate care to women who have suffered trauma. Legislation has created specific exceptions that allow single sex services for women in these circumstances. How is it possible to talk about this if we can’t talk about sex?

This isn’t about how somebody chooses to live, (how can anyone know how a stranger chooses to live?). It is about sex. That is all.

Lurkermum we KNOW already that NATWALT.

We also know NAMALT.

That doesn’t have anything to do with the trauma a female rape victim might experience in their presence.

From Roddy Dunlop, Dean of the Faculty of Advocates ( which are Scottish Silks)

mobile.twitter.com/RoddyQC/status/1425086901258706954

I guess I’m appealing for humans to be thoughtful

No, you are specifically appealing for female people to be 'thoughtful', by which you mean to place others' wishes and feelings above their own. You have no such expectations on the male people in this situation. Even though this is specifically about those male people being paid to provide care for female clients. It is not the job of counsellors to require service and care from their clients. For any service provider in this field to seek their own needs to be met by their clients is a massive, massive, unacceptable failure of basic professional requirements. It's an appalling failure. It demonstrates total unfitness to be in such a position of trust. And that's before we get on to 'part of my treating you will be to enforce compliance with my own political beliefs' and a CEO who has a very heavy personal stake in achieving this. It's an appalling situation all round, it's flat out unethical.

I’m just really tired of the lack of sensible discussion learning and understanding / tolerance from all sides

Bloody hell, I wonder what raped women are tired of? No, it's not 'both sides'. No one is telling TW to 'reframe their trauma' and get over their 'bigotry' about seeing female people's sex based needs as an unacceptable threat to their personal freedoms. No one is making access to care services conditional upon being subject to conversion therapy to the correct political beliefs and perceptions instead of their own. If you really see women standing up for other women as 'not sensible' then it's about time you considered why you see female humans as so much less valuable than male ones.

Why haven’t they gone off and started specialist provision for the group they are more interested in?

As far as I know there is nothing to stop them from providing unisex or trans specific services and seeking funding accordingly.

But this idea that traumatised female rape victims should pretend they can’t see sex? How on earth can anyone running a rape crisis centre say this?

@Artichokeleaves

I guess I’m appealing for humans to be thoughtful

No, you are specifically appealing for female people to be 'thoughtful', by which you mean to place others' wishes and feelings above their own. You have no such expectations on the male people in this situation. Even though this is specifically about those male people being paid to provide care for female clients. It is not the job of counsellors to require service and care from their clients. For any service provider in this field to seek their own needs to be met by their clients is a massive, massive, unacceptable failure of basic professional requirements. It's an appalling failure. It demonstrates total unfitness to be in such a position of trust. And that's before we get on to 'part of my treating you will be to enforce compliance with my own political beliefs' and a CEO who has a very heavy personal stake in achieving this. It's an appalling situation all round, it's flat out unethical.

I’m just really tired of the lack of sensible discussion learning and understanding / tolerance from all sides

Bloody hell, I wonder what raped women are tired of? No, it's not 'both sides'. No one is telling TW to 'reframe their trauma' and get over their 'bigotry' about seeing female people's sex based needs as an unacceptable threat to their personal freedoms. No one is making access to care services conditional upon being subject to conversion therapy to the correct political beliefs and perceptions instead of their own. If you really see women standing up for other women as 'not sensible' then it's about time you considered why you see female humans as so much less valuable than male ones.

Brava Artichoke!!!!

I think when the focus moved from the victims to those ‘helping’ then it stinks.

Well said Artichokeleaves

This is an appalling abuse of women. Everytime I think this shit can get no worse, it does. And our government does nothing to protect us.

[quote lurkermum]@ArabellaScott Thankyou for your comments - I can understand much you have said.[/quote]
People rarely post photos of trans women here to ridicule them. It's fairly pointless, and not really the goal.

Any photos, or comments about looks, are generally used to jerk one out of one's misperceptions.

Women being forced, almost everywhere, to not be allowed to name the male sex as male, is gaslighting.

Telling little children, for instance, that they cannot identify the male sex, is a huge safeguarding failure.

The CEO of this rape crisis centre is not only telling women they must not identify the male sex (can you imagine that in the context of male sex offences), but that they will be subject to name-calling and re-education if they do.

Women have had to go to court, to bloody court, to have the fact that they believe sex is real, protected as a belief. (Calling a legally protected belief bigotry, is, I believe now discriminatory).

It's important to remember what's happening here.

A male individual, who says that discussing whether or not women orgasm during rape should be a 'priority', and has also said that their promotion of an ideology that means women should not be able to name male individuals, is also a priority, is now telling women but they must not identify the male sex, at a centre, which specifically deals with male sex offences against women.

Even here on MN, our words are restricted and deleted, so people will post photos, or talk about past deeds and words, in order to achieve clarity, not ridicule.

A Mumsnetter wrote an article about one's perceptions and how they are so easily manipulated. It's short, but well worth a read, as it's fairly eye-opening. It would be brilliant if you could read it, and give us your verdict!

fairplayforwomen.com/pronouns/

@CuriousaboutSamphire

You are on some crusade, but you are not helping women access support. It's as easy as that. A crusade based in reality.

You haven't managed to explain/prove anything you hold to be true yet!

Lord, you are fishing. The women I was speaking about were young. That's all.

@Artichokeleaves

I guess I’m appealing for humans to be thoughtful

No, you are specifically appealing for female people to be 'thoughtful', by which you mean to place others' wishes and feelings above their own. You have no such expectations on the male people in this situation. Even though this is specifically about those male people being paid to provide care for female clients. It is not the job of counsellors to require service and care from their clients. For any service provider in this field to seek their own needs to be met by their clients is a massive, massive, unacceptable failure of basic professional requirements. It's an appalling failure. It demonstrates total unfitness to be in such a position of trust. And that's before we get on to 'part of my treating you will be to enforce compliance with my own political beliefs' and a CEO who has a very heavy personal stake in achieving this. It's an appalling situation all round, it's flat out unethical.

I’m just really tired of the lack of sensible discussion learning and understanding / tolerance from all sides

Bloody hell, I wonder what raped women are tired of? No, it's not 'both sides'. No one is telling TW to 'reframe their trauma' and get over their 'bigotry' about seeing female people's sex based needs as an unacceptable threat to their personal freedoms. No one is making access to care services conditional upon being subject to conversion therapy to the correct political beliefs and perceptions instead of their own. If you really see women standing up for other women as 'not sensible' then it's about time you considered why you see female humans as so much less valuable than male ones.

Excellent post.

I wonder if people end up questioning themselves as to why they are constantly telling women to be kind and thoughtful, and not the men who are calling them names for being able to identify male sex offenders.

How far do men have to go, before some women will de-prioritise them.

@Nachthex

CatherinaJTV 21:04:46 "In any case - I've gone and donated to Edinburgh Rape Crisis and I see that many others have too, so maybe there's something good yet to come from your preoccupation with a trans woman's GRC."

It is known that Mridhul Wadhwa does not have a GRC. When the lying on the job application was made public, we saw Wadhwa is an Indian citizen and the UK government does not, seemingly, grant GRCs to foreign nationals. I imagine this would cause all sorts of admin mayhem if they did so. Anyway, Wadhwa is legally and physiologically male and should never have been given the jobs in this sector in the first place. What we are seeing now confirms that in spades. Maybe this could be a reason, Catherina, for our 'preoccupation'?

Mridhul Wadhwa is a trans woman, lives as a trans woman, is generally recognised as a trans women. Your post beautifully shows how burocracy keeps her from getting a GRC.

Mridhul Wadhwa is not female. The CEO job was reserved for a female. Not sure how you're not getting this, Catherina.

I guess I’m appealing for humans to be thoughtful

Sometimes when a word is used a lot it becomes a euphemism. We forget what it really means. It’s worth taking a moment, as unpleasant as it might be, to really think about what rape entails and how unbelievably traumatic it is for the victim.

Go and read some rape victims’ stories. Go and read about the reality of what they experienced. The hideous, unimaginable violence. The knowledge that the worst of the ordeal may be yet to come. The knowledge that they may or may not be about to die. The experience of being a receptacle, a punching bag, a scapegoat for all of a man’s pent-up misogyny.

The way a whiff of aftershave or a certain kind of male voice or clothing can trigger their trauma decades later.

If you’re telling me that you could sit with a woman who’s experienced that, look her in the eye, and tell her she’s a ‘bigot’ who needs to ‘reframe her trauma’ and ‘be more thoughtful’, then I really can’t see how that’s anything other than misogyny.

I don’t think trans women are less safe no. I don’t believe I have said that. This is descending into a chaos I didn’t intend. It’s a shame I couldn’t communicate my views clear enough and they have been taken out of the context I intended