Deleted/censorship on mumsnet now!

[HermioneKipper]

My thread asking about transwomen/transitioning/penises has been deleted.

Why are we not allowed to discuss this? It’s a genuine question and extremely relevant to the debate about transwomen entering female spaces.

There was no abuse of trans people that I could see aside from a few people attempting to derail by saying that they couldn’t see why women might be concerned about having to share their space!

This isn’t right

Everything seems to be transphobic that is pro-woman.

Everything

@LucyLocket1234

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk guidelines.

Please tell us how we go about changing Tescos internal policy?

onelittlefrog You are (deliberately?) missing the point. Trans people can do whatever they want with their bodies, of course. But don't try and tell women that now makes them one of us, with the right to our spaces, because it doesn't. It's gaslighting.

I could put it to you that a TW should not tell women what we should and shouldn't find acceptable in our public spaces, as they are not us.

As for trans voices, they are all over the media. On a board titled 'Feminism' on a site called 'Mumsnet' is undoubtedly going to majority women, speaking about women's issues. Surely that should not a be a surprise to you or anyone else? If not here, then where can we talk about this? Or is the end goal that we don't speak about it at all?

@onelittlefrog

“People on that thread were talking about whether they felt it was permissable for a human being to keep a part of their own bodily anatomy.“

That’s not what we were talking about. We were asking why some people felt they could keep a penis and access women’s protected spaces.

That is an extremely valid concern.

Having been threatened by men numerous times myself I do not want to be in a vulnerable position/space with a man who has a penis. Eg a changing room.

Why does a transwoman’s right to enter a female space trump my right to feel safe?

When the discussion about the FWR board being split was going on, MNHQ more or less said there had been a lot of emails from those who wanted the board split. The opinions from those spoke about the issues openly on the board seemed to be given less importance than those who chose to email.

Maybe we need to start emailing to let our views known. It seems the only way to effect change.

I'm not sure we get to decide that Lucy tbh on a platform we neither own or decide the moderating rules for. I wish we could post more honestly, but really the choices are to post here under the rules, or post elsewhere where the rules are not the same 🤷

Why does a transwoman’s right to enter a female space trump my right to feel safe?

Without being able to peer in peoples underwear would you feel safer with a female passing MTF transwoman or a male passing FTM transman in a female space, or is this the usual 'men in a dress' nonsense that the usual posters come out with?

Deleting individual posts that break the guidelines seems a much fairer way to deal with any issues.

Most people are definitely not transphobic, and do not support any post that is harmful. Deleting whole threads closes down the debate entirely, and it is stopping us from discussing the very real and pressing concerns we have about safety and security for women and girls. We are valid as well, our views should have the same protection. Our rights need to be considered. Almost every other group is offered more protection than us. It seems grossly unfair to me. This is a wider issue than forums.

YetAnotherBeckyMumsnet

Thank you for responding. You state:

We don't ban discussions about AGP - but suggestions that it's the main motivation for transition does not sit within our guidelines.

Fair enough, but it is one of the motivations for transitioning. Surely then it can be reasonably discussed in the context of transition.

As for the figures of those who do not remove their genitals, we didn't invent those figures, they are out there and have been quoted in many different places.

Regarding threads being deleted, could there be a warning or something, and then certain 'problem' posts can be deleted? By removing a whole thread you are removing valuable input and discussions which can help other women who are trying to understand this issue and the many facets involved.

For those wondering what Spartacus is - please see here

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/site_stuff/2716595-TransAgenda-BullShit-The-I-am-Spartacus-Thread

I'm not sure that this is the original, but it is one of many.

onelittlefrog

And yet, your posts would have also been deleted for making generalisations against posters who hold opinions that are very different from yours and calling this forum 'anti-trans'.

The movement is gaining momentum offline now. Women will not submit.

Absolutely. ❤️

We don't ban discussions about AGP - but suggestions that it's the main motivation for transition does not sit within our guidelines.

Do you have access to any information that describes the stats around AGP?

But autogynephilia IS the main motivation for transition for SOME men. That isn’t a generalisation it’s just the truth, and one that many women are not aware of so we should be allowed to discuss it.

@Helleofabore

onelittlefrog

And yet, your posts would have also been deleted for making generalisations against posters who hold opinions that are very different from yours and calling this forum 'anti-trans'.

Then report their posts and if MNHQ agree with you and theyll be deleted

@JustAnotherPoster00

Why does a transwoman’s right to enter a female space trump my right to feel safe?

Without being able to peer in peoples underwear would you feel safer with a female passing MTF transwoman or a male passing FTM transman in a female space, or is this the usual 'men in a dress' nonsense that the usual posters come out with?

No male bodied people should be allowed to enter female spaces, no matter how they present or 'pass'.

No male bodied people should be allowed to enter female spaces, no matter how they present or 'pass'.

Without being able to peer in their underwear how would you know?

The thread wasn't criticising transwomen's decisions. It was established that these are multifaceted.

It was trying to understand why such a proportion appear to actively chose not to. It talked about the trans umbrella including non transsexuals and the assumption by wider society that things remained the same.

All of these matters, along with AGP change the risk profile for women, in sharing safe spaces. It makes it clearer that a third space is necessary.

And by the way I don't really think it is MN fault, this is happening everywhere, we are being silenced. Totally silenced. Not even being able to speak openly about our concerns for safety. It is not right. I have spoken to my MP at length about this, and there is much more awareness now in government of the difficulties and issues women are facing.

@JustAnotherPoster00

Why does a transwoman’s right to enter a female space trump my right to feel safe?

Without being able to peer in peoples underwear would you feel safer with a female passing MTF transwoman or a male passing FTM transman in a female space, or is this the usual 'men in a dress' nonsense that the usual posters come out with?

I’m sure many transwomen would pose absolutely no threat but there are many using the trans umbrella that do.

People born as male are generally much bigger and stronger than women and men pose a huge risk to women. It’s an indisputable fact. Men commit violent crimes and rape. Women do not.

I would not feel safe in a changing room or on a hospital ward with people with a penis. Women’s refuges and prisons need to be kept safe for females as well. Vulnerable women must be protected.

How anyone could argue not to do this is absolutely beyond me.

My MP is female by the way, and totally gets it.

Well I'm glad to hear that at least we can discuss the fact that the vast majority of men who transition retain their penis. I think the general public are generally still not aware of this fact and, as many surveys have shown, it makes a big difference to whether women feel safe with transwomen in our spaces.

I still vividly remember how shocked I was when I first discovered that the vast majority of transwomen retain their penis. I felt like my sympathy had been exploited. The prevailing narrative was that some male-born people had such terrible dysphoria that we all had to pretend that they were women.

Back in 2018 I had even signed the petition to allow Tara Hudson into a women's prison. The Guardian assured us that Tara had spent many years living as a woman. It then transpired that Tara had been describing themselves as 'actually a bloke' in 2015 and was advertising their services as a male prostitute with 'a seven inch surprise'.

Turns out that advertising a seven inch surprise is a previously undiscovered meaning of 'living as a woman'.

I still don't understand how handling your penis several times a day doesn't trigger dysphoria but someone using the wrong pronoun is literal violence.

(link to thread about Tara which shows Tara described themselves as 'actually a bloke')
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3282596-Ministry-of-Justice-being-sued-by-a-transwoman?pg=3

I would not feel safe in a changing room or on a hospital ward with people with a penis.

Without being able to peer in their underwear how would you know?

Trust me, we can always tell

Can we?