Never thought I'd post on here but males on female hospital wards. Wtf

[ryzen]

I thought we were making progress by getting rid of mixed wards. I'm really upset by this. Can I do anything?!

I am a victim of endless sexual abuse and harassment.

I have suffered very much for being female and being physically weaker than most males. I do not want to ever have to end up on a ward with one. I actually hide away now due to the attacks I have suffered in public. I never get a taxi alone. I plan my days around being home before dark.

In all honesty I do avoid men but I feel I should be able to if I want to especially with something as intimate as my healthcare. I've read a report in the times today that says if a female does not want to be next to a trans person then they should be treated as a racist would. I find it disgusting to even compare these scenarios.

so that other women can feel more at ease?

They're not "other women", they are male. Where do you put other vulnerable males? Do they come on the women's ward too?

It’s pretty awful in a setting where biology is the actual point of being there. If a nurse of doctor can’t tell the difference between male and female there’s no hope.

Sorry, to clarify. The "other women" are female. The male person is not.

This is something that needs to be repeated. Trans no longer means 'person who has gone through full sex reassignment surgery'. There is no medical requirement at all.

The euphemistic language of 'sex change' or 'sex reassignment surgery' used has played a significant role in justifying the inclusion of some male patients in female single-sex NHS accomodation.
There is no surgery that changes a person's sex and a male patient who has had breast augmentation and/or genital surgery presnts the same risk to female patients' privacy, dignity and safety as other male patients.
What is termed 'sex reassignment surgery' is often orchiectomy, an operation most often carried out on men who have testicular cancer. I assume that no-one would suggest that men being treated for that cancer type following surgery should be moved to female wards?

fail to believe that the 'majority' of medical staff in the NHS are unaware, with circa 1,164,729 staff under the NHS, i fail to believe over a Million people working within a medical field and unaware of political background regarding sex and gender identity.

Not to discredit whoever you are but that's just your opinion, isn't it?

@Bexxe

I guess my point sumarrised being - everyone has the right to be placed where they need the medical attention and where they feel comfrtable and safe.

Will there be exceptions to this rule? Of course, there is exception to every rule and there is no blanket way to ensure everyone is happy. As with anything in life

This is not how Safeguarding works. Where exceptions/loopholes to Safeguarding policies/procedures are made then those who are vulnerable to known risks are exposed to harm.

LangCleg wrote Thu 21-Feb-19

"How did the scandal of TV entertainers grooming and exploiting children get so bad before anything was done?

How did the scandal of Catholic priests grooming and exploiting children get so bad before anything was done?

How did the scandal of on-street gangs grooming and exploiting children get so bad before anything was done?

Because if you create a sacred caste of any group and silence anyone asking questions about individuals on behalf of the sacred caste, abusers will see, infiltrate, and groom and exploit children. That''s how."

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3512177-Julia-Long-asking-Munro-Bergdorf-about-child-exploitation?pg=12

Where do you put a trans women who fears men due to historic abuse? Do you put her in with men whilst she recieves her treatment and make her feel at risk so that other women can feel more at ease?

Where do you put a man who has been the victim of rape? A man who fears other men due to historic abuse? Do you put him in with men whilst he recieves his treatment and make him feel at risk? By your thinking, he should be put among women so that he feels safer!

@Bexxe

I guess my point sumarrised being - everyone has the right to be placed where they need the medical attention and where they feel comfrtable and safe.

Will there be exceptions to this rule? Of course, there is exception to every rule and there is no blanket way to ensure everyone is happy. As with anything in life

There is no risk assessment that can ensure every single person is safe. But the overwhelming risk assessment that is most effective, is that of sex segregation.

Sex crimes are committed 99% of the time by men. Violent crime is 90% of the time by men. Irrespective of how they identify. And irrespective of who their victims are, whether they are male or female.

A female ward is deemed safer, because it is populated by the half of the population who don't commit these crimes. If you start adding the people who do commit them, it not only makes it as unsafe as anywhere else, you are using vulnerable women as the means to do it and instantly increasing the risk to them.

And the other point is these aren't just random men. They are men who have gone out of their way to access the female ward.

I don't know how many times this has to be said, but women are not a bloody service.

”everyone has the right to be where they feel comfortable and safe”

What utter tosh. A 50-year-old bloke might feel comfortable on the children’s ward. A disturbed patient might feel comfortable on the roof. An addict may want to have a bed in the pharmacy.

There are rules for a reason. Individuals’ personal preferences should not get to trump common sense.

I was on a gynae ward for a double mastectomy and reconstruction so felt like I'd been hit by a bus.
The lady in the bed next to me had her 3 adult sons visiting several times a day and each time the nurse insisted on keeping my curtain open so she could see me.
While 3 adult males sat openly staring at me and asking "have you had your boobs done?"
It was awful.

@MiaAnnabell3

I was on a gynae ward for a double mastectomy and reconstruction so felt like I'd been hit by a bus. The lady in the bed next to me had her 3 adult sons visiting several times a day and each time the nurse insisted on keeping my curtain open so she could see me. While 3 adult males sat openly staring at me and asking "have you had your boobs done?" It was awful.

Jesus wept. 💐

I fail to believe that the 'majority' of medical staff in the NHS are unaware, with circa 1,164,729 staff under the NHS, i fail to believe over a Million people working within a medical field and unaware of political background regarding sex and gender identity.

NHS staff who are aware would be obliged to have whistleblown Safeguarding concerns. As the article by Anne Harper-Wright makes clear, the NHS identified known risks to using a gender marker and failing to maintain the integrity of the sex data on patients' records.

Perpetrating the lie that NHS accomodation is 'single sex' when it is not is a failure of Duty of Care. Patients deserve much better.

@Bexxe

I guess my point sumarrised being - everyone has the right to be placed where they need the medical attention and where they feel comfrtable and safe.

Will there be exceptions to this rule? Of course, there is exception to every rule and there is no blanket way to ensure everyone is happy. As with anything in life

And as soon as a biological male is introduced to a women's segregated space, women are made to feel uncomfortable.

Why is it always women expected to 'put up with it'? Put up and shut up- because it seems that in some NHS hospitals, you will be labelled a bigot and have treatment withdrawn.

@GoldenBlue
@GCAcademic

You are insinuating that all men pose a threat and we should be threatened by their presence. We can’t incriminate all men.
I’m not saying we shouldn’t have individual wards for different sexes either, just that it doesn’t make me uncomfortable to share the same ward with the opposite sex.

I agree with the article that to assume criminal intent as a first point of risk is discriminatory.

This is the basis of safeguarding - assume the worst and consider how to mitigate against that. These individuals are men with the same risk of criminality as other men. Men commit 99% of sex crime and women are 80% of the victims. Half of transwomen prisoners are in prison for sex crimes.

And that is before you consider the privacy and dignity of women. Do their feelings not matter or only men who state they are women?

Why are there single sex wards in the first place?

[quote Rosesareredd]@GoldenBlue
@GCAcademic

You are insinuating that all men pose a threat and we should be threatened by their presence. We can’t incriminate all men.
I’m not saying we shouldn’t have individual wards for different sexes either, just that it doesn’t make me uncomfortable to share the same ward with the opposite sex.[/quote]
Making spaces sex segregated, that you appear to agree with, is not based on an opinion that all men commit crime.

The same way that DBS checks are not based on the opinion that those subject to them are paedophiles.

[quote Rosesareredd]@GoldenBlue
@GCAcademic

You are insinuating that all men pose a threat and we should be threatened by their presence. We can’t incriminate all men.
I’m not saying we shouldn’t have individual wards for different sexes either, just that it doesn’t make me uncomfortable to share the same ward with the opposite sex.[/quote]
If your 17 year old self was not uncomfortable on a ward full of middleaged men then I would worry for you. But regardless of how you feel you have no right to dictate that other women do not have privacy, dignity or safety.

[quote Rosesareredd]@GoldenBlue
@GCAcademic

You are insinuating that all men pose a threat and we should be threatened by their presence. We can’t incriminate all men.
I’m not saying we shouldn’t have individual wards for different sexes either, just that it doesn’t make me uncomfortable to share the same ward with the opposite sex.[/quote]
Why do we segregate male and females in wards and in prisons?

Quite simply because we deem men (enmasse and in general) a risk to women.

Trans women share the same offending pattern to men, based on current available statistics. So why would you lower the safe guarding requirements for this group compared to men?

I just don't understand what the drivers are to lower the safety protections just because someone has a different gender identify

It's not about individuals, it is about the over all rationale to separate sexes to protect women

Are you advocating fully mixed sex wards? If not why not?

Based on your rationale we can't possibly insinuate that men pose a threat can we?

A great template letter with all the links on how to find who in the NHS in your locality to send a letter to is here:

docs.google.com/document/d/1YaacyWCeXwK001LDY0mW57LdHMzpDwFsaypxyrmTUkc/edit

Mercy Muroki GB news presenter has just declared herself GC. GB news are debating the single sex wards issue this morning and will have guests on later.

Sorry don't know who or what time, also sorry about it being GB news which I feel some will need a Daily Mail style apology for!

[quote Rosesareredd]@GoldenBlue
@GCAcademic

You are insinuating that all men pose a threat and we should be threatened by their presence. We can’t incriminate all men.
I’m not saying we shouldn’t have individual wards for different sexes either, just that it doesn’t make me uncomfortable to share the same ward with the opposite sex.[/quote]
Great. Do please tell us how we differentiate between the lovely safe men & those men who will assault us just by looking

@GCAcademic

You're willingness to share with anatomical males results in the rest of us being labelled bigots and criminalised for wanting simple safe guarding principles to be followed.

Quite. Perhaps have a think about this before being so keen to signal your cool girl credentials.

Absolutely.

Just to say I really like Mercy Muroki. She's very straightforward and clear in her views and not afraid to say what she thinks. Worth watching GB news in the morning just for her.

You are insinuating that all men pose a threat and we should be threatened by their presence. We can’t incriminate all men.

No-one has done this. Recognising that males as a class represent potential risk to girls and women in certain situations does not mean that all boys and men are a risk. Just as recognising that adults as a class in certain situations represent potential risk to children does not mean that all adults are a risk.

For those who do not understand Safeguarding/Child Protection and underestimate the potential implications of disregarding policies/principles, I would encourage reading the findings of the Independent Inquiry into Child Sexual Abuse:

www.iicsa.org.uk/

@MiaAnnabell3

I was on a gynae ward for a double mastectomy and reconstruction so felt like I'd been hit by a bus. The lady in the bed next to me had her 3 adult sons visiting several times a day and each time the nurse insisted on keeping my curtain open so she could see me. While 3 adult males sat openly staring at me and asking "have you had your boobs done?" It was awful.

Fuck. Ing. Hell.

.