Never thought I'd post on here but males on female hospital wards. Wtf

[ryzen]

I thought we were making progress by getting rid of mixed wards. I'm really upset by this. Can I do anything?!

I am a victim of endless sexual abuse and harassment.

I have suffered very much for being female and being physically weaker than most males. I do not want to ever have to end up on a ward with one. I actually hide away now due to the attacks I have suffered in public. I never get a taxi alone. I plan my days around being home before dark.

In all honesty I do avoid men but I feel I should be able to if I want to especially with something as intimate as my healthcare. I've read a report in the times today that says if a female does not want to be next to a trans person then they should be treated as a racist would. I find it disgusting to even compare these scenarios.

Andy detracts from the arguments about where transgender people should be accommodated.

Ok @Rosesareredd- so what is your actual opinion then? Do you think that just because some women don't mind, that all women should have to share hospital bays with biological males?

I wasn’t aware of how badly the NHS was failing people.

I think many people are reluctant to criticise the NHS because so many of the staff are so overworked and the save lives. The NHS is one of the best things Britain has ever done.
Clearly decades of cuts and chipping away at services with an eye to privatisation has screwed everyone.

I don’t know where to even begin fixing it.

Wards should be sex segregated. Overwhelmingly it’s what the public want, isn’t it?

Maybe a general thread in the Good Feminists section or AIBU would alert more women to the problems of poor care, abuse and neglect? There’s clearly a lot of feminist issues that don’t need to be derailed by “you are all hate filled bigots!” need to be talked about.

Has this thread been moved? I thought it was in Feminist chat..

@OverTheRubicon

Isn't this supposed to be on the trans topic now?

It’s not just a trans topic though is it.

Why is this thread in the naughty corner? It's of interest to all women, not just feminists. MN need to get a grip.

As an ex hospital worker i think i can weigh in here.

To be clear - Hospitals make the concious effort to ensure wards arent mixed sex breached. Infact, they have to report to NHSI/E everytime a mixed sex breach occurs because its classed as an incident.

With the pressures in the hospitals at the moment, clinical need has to prevail over mixed wards. If there is a patient coming in through A&E that needs respiratory care, and the only bed left is on a male ward - they clinically have to put the patient on that ward no matter the sex. The alternative is to have a patient who needs specialist care in a non-specialist ward which can end in fatality.
Hospitals do work hard to make sure people are placed in same sex wards, but the clinical need of the patient must come first to ensure they are given the best care

To be clear - Hospitals make the concious effort to ensure wards arent mixed sex breached. Infact, they have to report to NHSI/E everytime a mixed sex breach occurs because its classed as an incident.

Except these are not 'mixed sex breaches' but 'mixed gender identity breaches'. A male patient whose NHS record states 'female gender' would not be recorded as a breach if placed on a female single sex ward.

see previous linked document, medium.com/@anneharperwright/sex-gender-the-nhs-1e8f4e6363a6

@StrawberryLipstickStateOfMind - I agree that if women don’t feel comfortable being on a mixed ward they should have a choice to be moved, however, as I’m comfortable with it, it wouldn’t be a problem for me.

[quote R0wantrees]To be clear - Hospitals make the concious effort to ensure wards arent mixed sex breached. Infact, they have to report to NHSI/E everytime a mixed sex breach occurs because its classed as an incident.

Except these are not 'mixed sex breaches' but 'mixed gender identity breaches'. A male patient whose NHS record states 'female gender' would not be recorded as a breach if placed on a female single sex ward.

see previous linked document, medium.com/@anneharperwright/sex-gender-the-nhs-1e8f4e6363a6[/quote]
I can see the poit your making, i think just from all perspectives its really not as simple as that.
Majority of NHS trusts are majorly under funded, lacking in estate space and lacking in workforce. To keep every at peace, it would essentially mean creating ( which money and space dont allow in most cases) a seperate gender identified ward. They would then need to find the workforce to staff that ward, and have multile of them to capture each speciality.

I dont doubt anyones reasonings on here for being uncomfortable with the situation, i simply just wanted to offer a small insight into the logistcal factors that end in mixed breaches - its not through lack of insight or lack of understanding. The hospitals simply just are not equipped to avoid this issue

Mixed wards have been around for years and in my experience are kept pretty separate. Ive spent many a time on a mixed hospital ward and have never shared an actual bay with men.
To me they make sense when money and space is limited.

not only this - but each person will have their specific reason as to why they are uncomfrtable. For example, a Trans patient (say from male to female in this example) could have a background of abuse and have the same fear of men as some female born women. Where do we place this patient?
In the female ward with people who are uncomfrtable with her, or int he male ward where she will also feel at risk?

[quote Rosesareredd]@StrawberryLipstickStateOfMind - I agree that if women don’t feel comfortable being on a mixed ward they should have a choice to be moved, however, as I’m comfortable with it, it wouldn’t be a problem for me.[/quote]
The women shouldn't be put in that position, when at their most vulnerable. Particularly when hospitals are saying that daring to complain could result in removal of essential medical treatment and reporting to the police for hate crimes!

You're willingness to share with anatomical males results in the rest of us being labelled bigots and criminalised for wanting simple safe guarding principles to be followed.

Penises don't belong on female wards any more than they belong in female prisons. For the safety of women.

If additional safe guarding and protection is required to protect trans women from men then that should be done, but not by transferring exactly the same risk to women instead.

Bexxe Have you read the articles by Anne Harper-Wright? The majority of medical staff in NHS are unaware of the political background and implications of conflating sex and gender identity:

medium.com/@anneharperwright/sex-gender-the-nhs-1e8f4e6363a6

medium.com/@anneharperwright/sex-gender-the-nhs-bb86b0c3ebb

Discussing it now on Women's Hour.

[quote Rosesareredd]@StrawberryLipstickStateOfMind - I agree that if women don’t feel comfortable being on a mixed ward they should have a choice to be moved, however, as I’m comfortable with it, it wouldn’t be a problem for me.[/quote]
But, in this case, they wouldn't be on a mixed ward. They'd be on a female ward. With men. So where should they be moved to? Another "female" ward that accommodates male sex offenders? And can you explain why they be the ones to be moved from the female ward, rather than the male?

Whether you have a problem with it is totally irrelevant. Plenty of women do.

You're willingness to share with anatomical males results in the rest of us being labelled bigots and criminalised for wanting simple safe guarding principles to be followed.

Quite. Perhaps have a think about this before being so keen to signal your cool girl credentials.

@Bexxe

not only this - but each person will have their specific reason as to why they are uncomfrtable. For example, a Trans patient (say from male to female in this example) could have a background of abuse and have the same fear of men as some female born women. Where do we place this patient? In the female ward with people who are uncomfrtable with her, or int he male ward where she will also feel at risk?

As Tara Hewitt makes clear, 'trans' is an umbrella term that includes men who cross dress for sexual pleasure.

As you are no doubt aware, there are many boys and men who do not identify as 'trans' and have been abused/ sexually assaulted by men. Should they be placed in female single sex wards also?

And the “mixed wards” doesn’t really apply, as the transgender patients want to be on a female ward specifically.

I wonder what happens if one objects to sharing with a male patient who looks to all I tents and purposes - male, but is identifying as a woman? Do you get labelled a bigot and get your treatment withdrawn for daring to assume that a bloke with a beard is a bloke?

As Tara Hewitt makes clear, 'trans' is an umbrella term that includes men who cross dress for sexual pleasure.

This is something that needs to be repeated. Trans no longer means 'person who has gone through full sex reassignment surgery'. There is no medical requirement at all.

This means any male, trans identifying or not, can legitimately gain access to female spaces. And anyone who protests is a bigot.

wonder what happens if one objects to sharing with a male patient who looks to all I tents and purposes - male, but is identifying as a woman? Do you get labelled a bigot and get your treatment withdrawn for daring to assume that a bloke with a beard is a bloke?

In theory, yes as they are not allowed to be treated differently if they say the magic words. It's a massive exercise in gaslighting.

[quote R0wantrees]Bexxe Have you read the articles by Anne Harper-Wright? The majority of medical staff in NHS are unaware of the political background and implications of conflating sex and gender identity:

medium.com/@anneharperwright/sex-gender-the-nhs-1e8f4e6363a6

medium.com/@anneharperwright/sex-gender-the-nhs-bb86b0c3ebb[/quote]
Not to discredit whoever Anne Harper-Wright is, but data can be used in any context its wanted with correct wording.

I fail to believe that the 'majority' of medical staff in the NHS are unaware, with circa 1,164,729 staff under the NHS, i fail to believe over a Million people working within a medical field and unaware of political background regarding sex and gender identity.

It is not my intention to have a debate, i was simply offerring an alternative outlook to this conversation. With many people commenting on here being patients and (quite rightly) not knowing the struggles faced on a day to day operational basis just to ensure the hospital can remain in action. It really is not as simple as 'they shouldnt be together' - as mentioned above, how can anyone correctly adhere to everyones preferences when we are all so different?

Where do you put a trans women who fears men due to historic abuse? Do you put her in with men whilst she recieves her treatment and make her feel at risk so that other women can feel more at ease?
It many cases its a lose lose situation, with no-one being mroe entitled to feeling more comfortable at hospital than the other

Utsbaqfuo isn't it op

There should be safguarding but there isnt because now safguarding is viewed as a personal attack and offensive. As opposed to basic common sense. Im a woman witg no convictions etc . I have no business being placed in a men's ward or on a children's ward. Other people aren't props In proving my sainthood to the world.

Sadly we can't even discuss this without being accused of allsorts and banished to the naughty corner.

All those who have no problem being on mixed wards are free to go surround themselves with men at any time they want should they so wish. They shouldn't use it as a yard stick as to why everyone ekse should be OK.with it.

Awful isn't it

Sorry there's maple syrup on my phone screen

I guess my point sumarrised being - everyone has the right to be placed where they need the medical attention and where they feel comfrtable and safe.

Will there be exceptions to this rule? Of course, there is exception to every rule and there is no blanket way to ensure everyone is happy. As with anything in life