What is wrong with the term 'Sex workers'?

[MapGirlExtraordinaire]

I'm going to post this then disappear for the day, just because I'm about to visit family, not intending to be rude to posters.

I was recently speaking with a female friend who kept using the term 'sex worker' to describe prostitutes. I felt very uncomfortable, fully on board with the MN feminist view that all prostitution is abuse and should be named as such.

However my friend was clear that 'this is their preferred name, it's what they ask to be called' and I didn't have much of a reply except that I haven't seen that and very much doubt more than a miniscule minority are happy content working women who have put time and effort into deciding what they want their job title to be.

My friend was very unimpressed by my reply. We also clashed about me being terfy later to her mind ('I hate jkr's politics' says my left leaning friend who is interested in philanthropy... often focussing on women in business. Unlike JKR obvs )

Just wondering if any MNers can point me in the way of a more robust reply to why pretending prostitution is a specialist career choice on a par with eg accountancy?

Thanks

Sex "work" isn't work.

Prostituted or bought women are the terms I use.

Sounds like an attempt to polish a turd IMO.

It makes it sounds more acceptable.

But also, assume sex work also encompasses porn and only fans? Not just prostitution?

What other jobs or work is there that the work is to bring men to orgasm

what other work is there where 2/3 of the 'workers' have been raped while doing their 'work' ?

what other 'work' is there that disproportionately attracts 'workers' who have been sexually abused as children (around 50%)

what other 'work' is there where around 50% of the 'workers' report current or past homelessness?

it's almost as if no-one would do this 'work' unless they were desperate, innit?

fucking 'sex work'. the cry of the middle class dick panderer with no thought about reality

Presumably, if she has spoken to prostituted women who want to be called 'sex workers', they will have been the ones promoting the sex industry as a viable career option, and probably the women in slightly less dangerous parts of it (I say slightly, because even things which appear relatively 'safe' like Cams can be incredibly damaging to the women involved), or maybe even pimps.

I suggest she broaden her field of enquiry to encompass the many prostituted women and women who have escaped and listen to them, rather than the PR teams that want to carry on profiting from the sexual exploitation and abuse of women. But I'm just a feminist and I don't have blue hair anymore, so I'm no authority.

Try this?

She's been reading too much diary of a callgirl. Try mentioning anal prolapse frequency and internal injury in sex work. If sex work were work no health and safety law could cover it.

@BernardBlackMissesLangCleg

what other work is there where 2/3 of the 'workers' have been raped while doing their 'work' ?

what other 'work' is there that disproportionately attracts 'workers' who have been sexually abused as children (around 50%)

what other 'work' is there where around 50% of the 'workers' report current or past homelessness?

it's almost as if no-one would do this 'work' unless they were desperate, innit?

fucking 'sex work'. the cry of the middle class dick panderer with no thought about reality

Totally agree with you. And those statistics are really sobering.

Many pimps call themselves sex workers.

Who wants to share anything with a pimp?

Does this sound like an occupation with workers in the sense that it's usually understood? - Brace yourself when reading it.

Legalized Prostitution In Germany Looks Like A Living Nightmare

When German anti-prostitution advocates talk about the situation of prostitution in Germany, we hear the same responses, over and over: “You’ve got to be kidding!” or “How is this possible?” When we do presentations in other countries, people in the audience will often start to cry or ask for a break after 15 minutes to get some fresh air. The same presentations in Germany cause outrage as well, but we’ve noticed that people have become so accustomed to the situation, their emotional response is subdued. In fact, German men will often openly and proudly out themselves as sex buyers at abolitionist events. There is no shame in being a commercial sex buyer in Germany. This is an obvious and alarming sign that decades of legalized prostitution have shaped society.

fightthenewdrug.org/germanys-legalized-prostitution-industry-looks-like-a-real-life-horror-movie/

It sanitises what is a deeply abusive industry. As others have said, if sex work really was work, it would be almost impossible to do purely from a health and safety pov.

MrsWooster that is an excellent post.

However my friend was clear that 'this is their preferred name, it's what they ask to be called'

How many did she ask?

Surely the default is person first? I would think Susan prefers to say she “does cam work” and Elaine “works in a parlour”. Defining all as sexual workers as one category just aggregates the brothel owners and the porn producers with the women and children they exploit.

I would say "sex workers" is the preferred term for a very particular set of people who tend to be operating under a particular set of circumstances where they have freely chosen their occupation and are free to leave it should they please.

We know a large number of women have ended up in prostitution through less than ideal circumstances, including where free choice was not necessarily a factor and where leaving is not so easy. "Sex work" umbrellas everyone into one big group, and it's the women who have been most exploited who are the ones who get forgotten, not heard and even hidden away.

And another thread about definitions. Post and run with the promise of returning. It is getting boring now.

Prostituted women are not a hive mind, so your friend can no more claim that they all want to be called sex workers than I can claim they all want to be called prostitutes.

I am more inclined to focus on trafficked women and those who sell sex out of desperation and deprivation than women who do a bit of cam work on only fans, or the rare Belle du Jour types. Tbh I'm not much interested in the latter.

I care about vulnerable women, and it does not serve them to pretend prostition is a great life choice when so many come to such great harm. I also believe it harms women, as a class, to live in societies where our sisters are up for sale.

I recommend your friend listens to the prostituted women interviewed in this podcast. I listened a while ago so can't recall which episode, or the survivor's name, but her answer to the question of teminology may be illuminating if your friend genuinely cares about what these women want.

open.spotify.com/show/6KpQGBXTpqGs9J26mTSbZV?si=792noqAfSL-lCbBVxfIA_g&utm_source=copy-link&dl_branch=1

For me it's the difference between the terms "child porn" and "child sexual abuse"

The vast majority of women forced into prostituting, by trafficking, by poverty, by drug addiction, by men, don't want to be there.

Are you worced to stay working in a job you don't want to be doing that damages you?

However my friend was clear that 'this is their preferred name, it's what they ask to be called'

Your friend is living in a fantasy ‘Pretty Woman’ world where people who need to make money by selling sex have agency and their biggest concern is what other people call them.

In fact that is often (but not always) part of the fantasy being sold - that the women have a choice.

[quote FlyPassed]Prostituted women are not a hive mind, so your friend can no more claim that they all want to be called sex workers than I can claim they all want to be called prostitutes.

I am more inclined to focus on trafficked women and those who sell sex out of desperation and deprivation than women who do a bit of cam work on only fans, or the rare Belle du Jour types. Tbh I'm not much interested in the latter.

I care about vulnerable women, and it does not serve them to pretend prostition is a great life choice when so many come to such great harm. I also believe it harms women, as a class, to live in societies where our sisters are up for sale.

I recommend your friend listens to the prostituted women interviewed in this podcast. I listened a while ago so can't recall which episode, or the survivor's name, but her answer to the question of teminology may be illuminating if your friend genuinely cares about what these women want.

open.spotify.com/show/6KpQGBXTpqGs9J26mTSbZV?si=792noqAfSL-lCbBVxfIA_g&utm_source=copy-link&dl_branch=1[/quote]
Agree with this.

Have you listened to the Emma Caldwell podcast on BBC sounds OP? It might still be available, not sure. Emma Caldwell was a murdered prostitute and one episode interviews her friend who was also a prostitute at the time. The term sex worker really bothers her.

Oh sorry @FlyPassed I didnt see you had linked to the podcast already and essentially made the same point

However my friend was clear that 'this is their preferred name, it's what they ask to be called'

Does your friend know many prostitutes/sex workers?

One of the problems is the broadness of the term - it takes in strippers and lapdancers and women who sit at home in front of a web cam talking dirty. (As well as pimps, as a PP said.)

There are feminist concerns about women doing those jobs, but prostitution is a very specific service, giving men access to women's bodies. It is hugely dangerous, dehumanising and in no way empowering for the prostituted woman.

@FemaleAndLearning

And another thread about definitions. Post and run with the promise of returning. It is getting boring now.

The Bewilderness used to call it 'JAQing off' (just asking questions)

A woman’s vagina is not a place of business. I hate when people pretend prostitution is all “happy hooker”, empowered woman who just loves sex so much she is willing to sell her body to any man who is willing to pay.

It’s exploitation period.

Even our government, who have done so many terrible things to people in poverty do not sanction unemployed people for not taking a job as a so called 'sex worker'.

They get close with the state sanctioned rape they are now instituting in womens prisons, but even for people that unscrupulous forcing desperate people into 'sex work' is still seen as a step too despicable to take.