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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

What is wrong with the term 'Sex workers'?

94 replies

MapGirlExtraordinaire · 24/07/2021 12:04

I'm going to post this then disappear for the day, just because I'm about to visit family, not intending to be rude to posters.

I was recently speaking with a female friend who kept using the term 'sex worker' to describe prostitutes. I felt very uncomfortable, fully on board with the MN feminist view that all prostitution is abuse and should be named as such.

However my friend was clear that 'this is their preferred name, it's what they ask to be called' and I didn't have much of a reply except that I haven't seen that and very much doubt more than a miniscule minority are happy content working women who have put time and effort into deciding what they want their job title to be.

My friend was very unimpressed by my reply. We also clashed about me being terfy later to her mind ('I hate jkr's politics' says my left leaning friend who is interested in philanthropy... often focussing on women in business. Unlike JKR obvs Hmm )

Just wondering if any MNers can point me in the way of a more robust reply to why pretending prostitution is a specialist career choice on a par with eg accountancy?

Thanks

OP posts:
annadjinn · 25/07/2021 14:38

You may find this article interesting about how the "sex work" term was introduced and popularised as a deliberate attempt to normalise prostitution and the sex industry:

nordicmodelnow.org/2021/06/05/a-brief-history-of-the-sex-work-is-work-movement/

If you are concerned about where this normalisation is going - that young female students are being encouraged into the sex industry to pay their halls of residence fees, then please sign and share the Nordic Model Now! petition:

www.change.org/p/university-of-leicester-revoke-the-university-of-leicester-student-sex-work-policy-and-toolkits

MargaritaPie · 25/07/2021 14:38

"Ask her if a person locked in a room and forced to have sex with many people against their will, so being raped, is a sex worker."

That would be called a rape victim, not a sex worker.

NiceGerbil · 25/07/2021 16:17

Yes men who sell sex, invariably to other men, also are exposed to massive risk.

Not sure what this point is supposed to say really.

NiceGerbil · 25/07/2021 16:17

No it would be called a woman trafficked into prostitution, or similar.

NiceGerbil · 25/07/2021 16:18

And no one would fail to realise that meant she had been repeatedly raped by men who wanted to pay to fuck a woman and did not care what her circumstances were.

PurgatoryOfPotholes · 25/07/2021 16:56

extract

In less elevated circles, such as the website Punternet, where one can imagine obscure versions of Wayne Rooney or Hugh Grant or Jeffrey Archer seeking helpful tips or information, men who buy sex submit their reports in much the same righteous, easily aggrieved tone as the Good Food Guide's amateur inspectors, gittishly rating prostitutes for warmth of welcome, interior decor, value for money and whether or not they would recommend the individual in question to future users.

Clearly, standards in the domestic sex trade are not always what they should be. "She's Polish but her English isn't brilliant. Only been with the agency a couple of days," notes a discerning consumer whose fee was collected by "an agent". Communication seems to be a common problem: "English not her strongest language, but her personality more than compensated," comments another customer. On the plus side, the eastern European monoglots seem to be younger than the home-grown product. "If she wore a school uniform, she would have looked 16," gloats one report, whose author guesses that the woman in question was actually around 19 years old. The same age, then, as one of the Lithuanian girls whose auction last year, at the Costa Coffee concession at Gatwick airport, was described in a report on a sex-trafficking case in yesterday's Daily Mirror.

Much, quite rightly, was made of the vileness of the swarthy human traffickers who had duped these innocent girls into coming to Britain. Sentencing them to 21 and 16 years respectively, the judge, Trevor Barber, this week told Tasim Axhami, a Serb, and Emiljan Beqirat, a Lithuanian, "You have no moral values, scruples or compassion. Neither of you has any place in this or any other normal society."

In practice, Axhami and Beqirat found a warm welcome in some parts of this society. The shamelessness of the Punternet correspondents indicates that they, at any rate, would be affronted by any suggestion that they are not supremely normal. And yet without men like them, there would be no market for the traffickers and the women brought here to be raped, sold and imprisoned. One of their victims, a 19-year-old from Moldavia, has described how she was raped and subsequently installed in a City flat with six others. Their clients were generally married, and able to pay the women's pimps at least £100 per visit. The girls received nothing. It was after she appealed to one of these clients, a man in his 50s who gave her £200, that the girl escaped. The client had thought she was there voluntarily.

Perhaps the language barrier explains why so few of the men who are using - effectively raping - women who have been trafficked in this way never wonder if their young, obliging Moldavian, Lithuanian and Estonian companions might not prefer to be here as au pairs, or even to be back home, instead of submitting to sexual abuse from 30 strangers a day. If so, there are other clues and telltale signs they might watch out for.

For example, they might look around the massage parlour, or brothel, and, as well as awarding marks for neatness, wonder: are these girls obviously held captive? In the recent raid on Cuddles, the Birmingham massage parlour where 19 women were immured, police had to use battering rams to knock down locked internal doors, windows had been boarded up, and an electric fence stopped anyone trying to escape from the back of the building. What kind of person lives in a house like this?

(Continues)

In reality, it is probably the extreme powerlessness of these complaisant, identity-free foreign girls, who could never talk back even if they wanted to, that renders them such appealing members of a trade in which women are commodities. The indulgence extended to glossier participants in the lap-dancing end of the sex industry cannot account for the thousands of law-abiding British men for whom the abuse of a trafficked teenager constitutes a satisfying sexual encounter. But perhaps the two things are not wholly unrelated.

Continues: www.theguardian.com/society/2005/oct/20/penal.comment

Ereshkigalangcleg · 25/07/2021 17:10

There are many occasions when women and even underage girls forced into prostitution and repeatedly raped have been called "sex workers" in the media.

OhWhyNot · 25/07/2021 17:13

I worked with ex sex workers (therapy capacity)

That is the term they preferred to use

MargaritaPie · 25/07/2021 20:14

"There are many occasions when women and even underage girls forced into prostitution and repeatedly raped have been called "sex workers" in the media."

Do you have any source examples? If this is the case the media is definitely in the wrong.

MargaritaPie · 25/07/2021 20:15

"No it would be called a woman trafficked into prostitution, or similar."

If you call all sex workers "trafficked victims" then that means there is zero distinction between the (consenting) sex workers and those who really are trafficked and need help. Don't you think that would be problematic?

NiceGerbil · 25/07/2021 20:23

Oh come on margarita

I know you love these threads but when you do this context dropping stuff everyone can read it. And it doesn't come across well for you.

'"Ask her if a person locked in a room and forced to have sex with many people against their will, so being raped, is a sex worker."

That would be called a rape victim, not a sex worker.

No it would be called a woman trafficked into prostitution, or similar."

If you call all sex workers "trafficked victims" then that means there is zero distinction between the (consenting) sex workers and those who really are trafficked and need help. Don't you think that would be problematic?'"

This sort of behaviour is boring and pointless and does nothing to encourage other posters to give your posts their full attention.

HerewardTheWoke · 25/07/2021 21:17

Does your friend have children?

If so, would she be happy for 'prostitute'/'rent boy'/'cam girl'/'porn actor'/'stripper' to be presented to them as legitimate future options at school careers day?

DdraigGoch · 25/07/2021 23:59

@gogohm

Sex work incorporates other "occupations" eg streaming, exotic dancing etc. As to its legitimacy? Well that's a matter of debate - can a woman (or man) choose to use their body in these ways to make money freely without coercion? I'm on the fence because I met someone who claims she does, loves her "work" and is mortgage free at 34, it's lucrative!
Is she telling the truth though? How often do you see MLMbots boasting about how much they're making when they aren't even breaking even?

Of course she could be at the high end of the market with footballers as customers but that would be the exception.

Gumbomambo · 26/07/2021 00:31

There is a lovely poster who sometimes weighs in on this. She is a surgeon who specialises in the damage done to women’s bodies by sexual violence. I work with “sex workers” on a day to day basis. The lady who posts talks about the absolute violence done to these women’s sex organs. She also posts about how prolific it is. The women she talks about don’t have the luxury to describe themselves as “sex workers”because they are brutalised, dehumanised and ruined. Sex Work? Do it yourselves you fucking vile apologists. Shame Shame on you.

MargaritaPie · 26/07/2021 01:36

My last post asked a valid question.

Would it be helpful to ensure there is a clear distinction made between consenting sex workers and trafficked/underage/rape victims? Or should we put everyone in one category and call them all trafficked?

NiceGerbil · 26/07/2021 02:33

@MargaritaPie

"No it would be called a woman trafficked into prostitution, or similar."

If you call all sex workers "trafficked victims" then that means there is zero distinction between the (consenting) sex workers and those who really are trafficked and need help. Don't you think that would be problematic?

Apologies I naturally assumed that you were referring to my post seeing as you quoted it...

Thank you for clarifying.

NiceGerbil · 26/07/2021 02:35

I've certainly never said that all sex workers are trafficked.

There must be millions of sex workers in the world. It would be foolish to make a blanket statement about any group let alone one so large!

HeddaAga · 26/07/2021 07:34

[quote annadjinn]You may find this article interesting about how the "sex work" term was introduced and popularised as a deliberate attempt to normalise prostitution and the sex industry:

nordicmodelnow.org/2021/06/05/a-brief-history-of-the-sex-work-is-work-movement/

If you are concerned about where this normalisation is going - that young female students are being encouraged into the sex industry to pay their halls of residence fees, then please sign and share the Nordic Model Now! petition:

www.change.org/p/university-of-leicester-revoke-the-university-of-leicester-student-sex-work-policy-and-toolkits[/quote]
👆👆👆

It's also worth reading about what's going on in Romania at the moment, one of the main providers of trafficked girls and women for the sex trade in Europe...

'Teenage girls often quit school after the age of 13, many disappearing into the realm of sex trafficking.'

http://projects.aljazeera.com/2015/08/sex-trafficking-in-romania/

I wonder which union they're signing them up to when they arrive at their destinations, suspect they're also lined up with a pension plan 🤔


'...the uk police investigation found that the brothel and the Romanian women inside were under the control of a criminal gang, which was also running at least three other premises where Romanian women were being exploited. It is estimated that just one of these brothels would have brought over £1m in profits every year.'

www.theguardian.com/global-development/2020/nov/30/silent-victims-the-hidden-romanian-women-exploited-in-the-uk-sex-trade

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