Posie Parker's latest - Glasgow

[TheShadowyFeminist]

I wilted in the heat so missed the pub afterwards. But PP's comments on the 'fawning' I'm finding interesting. Because even at a meeting of women who are fighting for their rights, and the right to say no to any male, irrespective of identity, being given access to female only services/space/provision/sport etc. it seems that female socialisation kicks in when a male wears a dress.

I've been involved in this fight for a number of years now, and I've witnessed how the inclusion of males, irrespective of claimed gender identity, often shifts the tone, the balance, the atmosphere for women & limits what they will say/do to further their cause. It also means that some women who really need that female solidarity can't access it.

I think the 'fawning' is something that we al need to reflect on & work out why this is how some of us behave over someone who (as far as I'm aware) has failed to acknowledge their part in writing guidance for schools that breach female children's rights under the UNCRC.

I think we all need to 'be more Posie' in life & activism.

What DH is saying in that very recent article is that he has autogynephilia and as such feels the need to signal his sex to himself to satisfy his attraction to himself, precisely because he is male.

Hayton says the trans movement is damaging to women.

Has Hayton actually changed his mind and stated that the guidance he wrote for the NASUWT was wrong and should be withdrawn?

Until he does that he is no friend to women.

DH's only interest appears to be securing access and acceptability for DH, purely on the basis that they disagree with extreme transactivism.

AGP as a concept is extremely unfeminist and relies on women's oppression. There's no earthly way a male with it or attempting to destigmatise it has the same goals as a feminist!

DH co wrote guidance for schools which recommends children call men with AGP, Miss, and that men with AGP should use the female toilets. As far as I know, despite being asked numerous times, DH has never retracted that.

In this very relevant interview, Grayson Perry explains how he gets people to be accepting of him acting out his fetish in public by being deliberately 'nice', 'polite' and making good eye contact:

BBC: Tr*nnying is a verb? It means dressing up, crossdressing?

GP: Yes, for pleasure.

BBC: Cynics might say it's great publicity, without Claire your transvestite identity, you'd be a potter. But to be a transvestite potter is so much more exotic.

GP: Yes it is good publicity, you're right, but I don't do it for publicity. I'd be doing it anyway, I've been doing it since I was 13 in the privacy of my own home. And there is an element of exhibitionism in it, in that I want people to see me dressed up. I want the reaction, for whatever reason. I want to fantasise about being humiliated or maybe I just want people to coo over me.

BBC: But what is the general reaction? Britain in 2006 likes to present itself as an open and tolerant society, is it?

GP: Yes. A lot of the time I hear people complaining about prejudice, transvestites in particular. Well, I don't get it because I walk into a shop and I'm nice. I give good eye contact and I'm polite. How do you behave dressed up is the sort of thing I ask, because until you have good social skills you can't start complaining about prejudice.

GP: Transvestism is a fetish and it is part of the spectrum of kinky sex. It's a fascinating compulsion to have. I think the channels of my creativity were laid down through sexual fantasy.

www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/p03js3g5

Perry also has a penchant for doing this in schools imgflip.com/i/4rbcy7, imgflip.com/i/4rbjzc.
And in his work with students at UAL imgflip.com/i/4rbbqz.

Should parents ever be informed that a teacher or visitor has very publicly explained that a fetish is the reason for doing what he is doing in the classroom with their children? Would that be appropriate to mention to parents before children stumble onto across that information on google? I know when I was at school, classmates loved to try to find teacher's social media to find out details about their lives.

I noticed that Kellie-Jay mentioned changing her mind on liking Grayson Perry on a recent stream. Kellie-Jay and Karen are the kind of teachers I wish all children had.

@BitMuch

In this very relevant interview, Grayson Perry explains how he gets people to be accepting of him acting out his fetish in public by being deliberately 'nice', 'polite' and making good eye contact:

BBC: Tr*nnying is a verb? It means dressing up, crossdressing?

GP: Yes, for pleasure.

BBC: Cynics might say it's great publicity, without Claire your transvestite identity, you'd be a potter. But to be a transvestite potter is so much more exotic.

GP: Yes it is good publicity, you're right, but I don't do it for publicity. I'd be doing it anyway, I've been doing it since I was 13 in the privacy of my own home. And there is an element of exhibitionism in it, in that I want people to see me dressed up. I want the reaction, for whatever reason. I want to fantasise about being humiliated or maybe I just want people to coo over me.

BBC: But what is the general reaction? Britain in 2006 likes to present itself as an open and tolerant society, is it?

GP: Yes. A lot of the time I hear people complaining about prejudice, transvestites in particular. Well, I don't get it because I walk into a shop and I'm nice. I give good eye contact and I'm polite. How do you behave dressed up is the sort of thing I ask, because until you have good social skills you can't start complaining about prejudice.

GP: Transvestism is a fetish and it is part of the spectrum of kinky sex. It's a fascinating compulsion to have. I think the channels of my creativity were laid down through sexual fantasy.

www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/p03js3g5

Perry also has a penchant for doing this in schools imgflip.com/i/4rbcy7, imgflip.com/i/4rbjzc.
And in his work with students at UAL imgflip.com/i/4rbbqz.

Should parents ever be informed that a teacher or visitor has very publicly explained that a fetish is the reason for doing what he is doing in the classroom with their children? Would that be appropriate to mention to parents before children stumble onto across that information on google? I know when I was at school, classmates loved to try to find teacher's social media to find out details about their lives.

I noticed that Kellie-Jay mentioned changing her mind on liking Grayson Perry on a recent stream. Kellie-Jay and Karen are the kind of teachers I wish all children had.

It's extraordinary, isn't it. If I present as a pleasant individual and I'm completely upfront about my sexual fetish, it's all fine.

Not only do people accept this premise, he's telling them that accepting it is part of it, and they still accept it!

It's like the perception filter from Doctor Who.

What if they actually saw physical signs of arousal? I'm not even sure that would do it.

@TinselAngel

I think women are very attached to being able to hold up "proof" that they are not transphobic.

This @TinselAngel

It also annoys me how women, when attempting to advocate for their rights generally, have to so often say 'but this is an issue that affects men as well'! In order to convince people that our causes have any worth, so many women feel the need to make the case that they must somehow benefit men as well. They can't simply stand on their own as important issues.

I want to fantasise about being humiliated

.............because there's nothing worse for a man than being dressed in low-status women's clothes, with little girl's or doll's clothes heightening the humiliation effect.

Also, the reason why Perry has managed to get away with that amongst the arty, liberal groups is because society still feels a reverence for eccentric men (who are seen as eccentric geniuses until the shit really hits the fan) as opposed to eccentric women (just crazy, a bit pathetic). If he was ANY other kind of man who did not present as a dishevelled, charming, friendly artist, he would have been stopped from turning up to events as Claire with children present a long time ago, due to safeguarding risks.

I don't think Hayton is at all charming or artsy eccentric like Perry but Hayton still gets celebrated and defended even by people well aware of his AGP. There really is some kind of Dr Who perception filter, psychic paper in the form of a dress. I don't know where the limit is for when people with influence start to object. Perry is very open about both of his favourite artists (Hand Bellmer and Henry Darger) being men who purely drew and sculpted naked sexualised tortured little girls, and seeing this "art" inspired him to get into art. www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4099715-Grayson-Perrys-Art-Club-Exhibition?pg=4.

No that's right @BitMuch . I think I was digressing there because I saw him being mentioned.

To the right people, being a union rep would inspire reverence. Especially if those people/organisations are focused on politics with a feminist perspective, rather than totally focused on feminism.

I think being a school teacher gives him respectability too, which some may find difficult to challenge.

@TinselAngel

I find the idea of femininity as "sexual signalling" both profoundly unfeminist, and coming from a self confessed AGP, disingenuous.

Feminists see femininity as being created by men in order to oppress women. AGP's find that idea of oppression arousing. It's then entire basis of AGP.

Just to interject here. I am talking about sexual signalling, i.e., how we signal our sex. This is not mere femininity or masculinity (gendered signaling) nor is it a social construct. Rather it is something we share with other species.

I am talking about sexual signalling, i.e., how we signal our sex.

Hi Debbie, just want to check, I understand you helped write the NASUWT guidelines which said that male teachers could use women's toilets etc. Do you still support those guidelines?

Re. Grayson Perry, I wonder how his wife deals with it all.

Just to interject here. I am talking about sexual signalling, i.e., how we signal our sex. This is not mere femininity or masculinity (gendered signaling) nor is it a social construct. Rather it is something we share with other species.

What does that mean Debbie? 'Signalling your sex'? Is it anatomy? Or biological sex? How does presenting as a woman do that?

Its a very confusing statement.

If he was ANY other kind of man who did not present as a dishevelled, charming, friendly artist, he would have been stopped from turning up to events as Claire with children present a long time ago, due to safeguarding risks.

Its absolutely mind blowing, isn't it! Confesses to being sexually aroused by dressing as a child, especially in public, being allowed to do so in front of children!

I am talking about sexual signalling, i.e., how we signal our sex. This is not mere femininity or masculinity (gendered signaling) nor is it a social construct. Rather it is something we share with other species.

Babies can recognise women from men based on gait, voice and facial differences. As referenced in the article below, infant rhesus macaques can also distinguish between female and male faces (of their species):
onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1002/dev.20412

Dr Katie Alcock (Senior lecturer in Psycology, Lancaster University)
December 2019
'But HOW CAN YOU TELL'
(extract)
"The barrister went on to ask how Maya [Forstater] could tell that someone is male or female without having been present at that person’s birth. Happily the rest of us live in the real world where it is pretty easy to work out whether someone is male or female: and no, it doesn’t depend on whether they have highlighted cheekbones and manicured fingernails.
So, how do we tell whether someone is male or female? Well, we are very good at it and — like a lot of human cognitive skills — we base it on a number of cues (pieces of information). In fact, we’re very good at it from the time we are tiny babies.
One of the best ways to tell a male body from a female body is gait — how you walk. You don’t need a whole body in front of you, or even the outline of a body, to tell male from female bodies. A nice little point light display will do the trick. Adults and babies aged 4 months or older can tell male from female in this type of video (first image shows a still, second is a video like the ones used in this type of experiment).

A point light display showing female (left) and male (right) adults with a dot of light on their limbs. [see screenshot]

(Click through on the video if you want to confirm you can tell male walkers from female walkers. Sadly I cannot find a video for the other sex!). Next up, we can tell the difference between male and female faces. Just as with gait, both infants and adults can do this. (continues)

For adults, there seems to be a “prototypical male” and “prototypical female” face and we seem to use a variety of features to distinguish: feature size and shape but also the distance and configuration of facial features. [see screenshot] (continues)

I’ll move on now to voices, though I could go on and on, this is a particularly helpful method for situations where you can’t see the whole of a person’s body and/or it’s dark and/or they are on the phone.
Again, babies can tell male from female voices. They may be able to tell the difference at birth (and they seem to prefer women’s voices — very likely because they have heard mainly a female voice before birth) but they are much better at categorisation (telling the difference between the broad categories of male and female rather than between individual speakers) by the time they are six months old. There is an interesting study suggesting they may even be able to tell male from female voices before they are born." (continues)
medium.com/@katieja/but-how-can-you-tell-7901324d0919

Its absolutely mind blowing, isn't it! Confesses to being sexually aroused by dressing as a child, especially in public, being allowed to do so in front of children!

All adults have a responsibility to Safeguard children.
"Child sexual abuse (CSA) is when a child is forced or persuaded to take part in sexual activities. This may involve physical contact or non-contact activities and can happen online or offline" (Department for Education, 2018; Department of Health, Social Services and Public Safety, 2017; Scottish Government, 2014; Wales Safeguarding Procedures Project Board, 2019).

MedicineNet
Medical Author: Roxanne Dryden-Edwards, MD Medical Editor: Melissa Conrad Stöppler, MD

'Facts you should know about paraphilia'
(extract)
"Paraphilias are emotional disorders defined as sexually arousing fantasies, urges, or behaviors that are recurrent, intense, occur over a period of at least 6 months, and cause significant distress or interfere with important areas of functioning.
Except for masochism, medical professionals almost exclusively diagnose paraphilias in men.
There are a number of different types of paraphilic disorders, each of which has a different focus of the sufferer’s sexual arousal. (continues)

Many people who suffer from one paraphilia have more than one. For example, about one-third of pedophiles also have another paraphilia. More than half engage in three or four such kinds of behaviors rather than just one. Most people who develop a paraphilia begin having fantasies about it before they are 13 years old.

According to the most current standard reference for mental disorders, the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, Fifth Edition (DSM-5), preceded by the DSM-IV and DSM-IV-TR, there are a number of different types of paraphilias, each of which has a different focus of the sufferer's sexual arousal:

Voyeurism : watching an unsuspecting/non-consenting individual who is either nude, disrobing, or engaging in sexual activity
Exhibitionism : exposing one’s own genitals to an unsuspecting person
Frotteurism : touching or rubbing against a non-consenting person
Sexual masochism : being humiliated, beaten, bound, or otherwise suffering
Sexual sadism : the physical or emotional suffering of another person
Pedophilia : sexual activity with a child that is prepubescent (usually 13 years old or younger)
Fetishism : sexual fascination with nonliving objects or highly specific body parts (partialism). Examples of specific fetishisms include somnophilia (sexual arousal by a person who is unconscious) and urophilia (deriving sexual pleasure from seeing or thinking about urine or urinating)
Transvestism : cross-dressing that is sexually arousing and interferes with functioning
Autogynephilia is a subtype of transvestism that refers specifically to men who become aroused by thinking or visualizing himself as a woman. (continues)
[[https://www.medicinenet.com/paraphilia/article.htm]

@Datun

Just to interject here. I am talking about sexual signalling, i.e., how we signal our sex. This is not mere femininity or masculinity (gendered signaling) nor is it a social construct. Rather it is something we share with other species.

What does that mean Debbie? 'Signalling your sex'? Is it anatomy? Or biological sex? How does presenting as a woman do that?

Its a very confusing statement.

Our biological sex, i.e., our role in the reproduction of our species. I found Carole Hooven's book very helpful in identifying and explaining the difference between male-pattern and female-pattern behaviour in both humans and other species. The reason we do it is to facilitate the continuation of our species. Just like other sexually dimorphic species.

There's a difference between an individual perceiving sexual dimorphism (an innate characteristic), and an individual signalling sexual availability (a temporary behaviour).

Female animals are not sexually available at all times; in fact most are only sexually available at specific times, and not to all males.

@Datun

Just to interject here. I am talking about sexual signalling, i.e., how we signal our sex. This is not mere femininity or masculinity (gendered signaling) nor is it a social construct. Rather it is something we share with other species.

What does that mean Debbie? 'Signalling your sex'? Is it anatomy? Or biological sex? How does presenting as a woman do that?

Its a very confusing statement.

If (as seems likely) Debbie is invoking pop evo-psych theories he should, being a secondary school science teacher, be capable of clear explanation. Repeating and contradicting an already confused/ confusing statement is unconvincing.

Ibid
"At the time — nine years ago — the urge to change not only my social presentation but also my body was irresistible. But can this be explained by differences in psychology, rather than a mysterious force?

Male and female psychologies are not the same. The most obvious difference is sexual orientation. According to the Office of National Statistics, 93.4% of men are attracted to women, while 93.9% of women are attracted to men. But to attract partners, men and women also signal sexually in grooming, dress and presentation, and they tend to do it differently. No doubt some of this will be socially conditioned, but that cannot explain our observations of other species. Peacocks not only possess distinctive plumage, they show it off."

Male peacock plumage is displayed during the mating season to attract females.

"The large train is used in mating rituals and courtship displays. It can be arched into a magnificent fan that reaches across the bird's back and touches the ground on either side. Females are believed to choose their mates according to the size, color, and quality of these outrageous feather trains... Suitable males may gather harems of several females, each of which will lay three to five eggs. In fact, wild peafowl often roost in forest trees and gather in groups called parties."
www.nationalgeographic.com/animals/birds/facts/peacocks

Don't confuse physical dimorphism with an availability signal.

Animals have mating seasons and they display sexual availability during those seasons.

Our biological sex, i.e., our role in the reproduction of our species. I found Carole Hooven's book very helpful in identifying and explaining the difference between male-pattern and female-pattern behaviour in both humans and other species. The reason we do it is to facilitate the continuation of our species. Just like other sexually dimorphic species.

I'm still confused. How are you signalling your biological sex by presenting as a woman? Or if that's not what you mean, then a little clarity would be useful.

DH's only interest appears to be securing access and acceptability for DH, purely on the basis that they disagree with extreme transactivism.

Bears repeating and is true for other 'allies'.

@Datun

Our biological sex, i.e., our role in the reproduction of our species. I found Carole Hooven's book very helpful in identifying and explaining the difference between male-pattern and female-pattern behaviour in both humans and other species. The reason we do it is to facilitate the continuation of our species. Just like other sexually dimorphic species.

I'm still confused. How are you signalling your biological sex by presenting as a woman? Or if that's not what you mean, then a little clarity would be useful.

Because the target location is inward, I'm signalling to myself. The Unherd piece gives more detail on that, though there is scope for a fuller account. I'm working on that at the moment.

@EarthSight

I want to fantasise about being humiliated

.............because there's nothing worse for a man than being dressed in low-status women's clothes, with little girl's or doll's clothes heightening the humiliation effect.

So what message does this send to little girls?