Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

Original poster

Phillip Pullman

235 replies

Dollpiglet · 21/07/2021 07:19

I'm not a huge user of Twitter but I do follow Phillip Pullman who seems to have stepped out on this issue now. I'm gutted!

twitter.com/PhilipPullman/status/1417467807873241088?s=19

OP posts:
Thread gallery
7
FightingtheFoo · 22/07/2021 09:28

@sashagabadon

I also think in the literature world there is a lot of jealousy generally between authors but specifically directed at authors that do very very well. There is a TV show about his triology now but prior to that there was a stage show which by all accounts was good but didn’t last that long and a Hollywood film that flopped. Compare that to Harry Potter world and no comparison
100% this
merrymouse · 22/07/2021 09:34

I agree with oldcrone.

It’s also not as though his behaviour stands out. Men aren’t exactly jumping over each other to defend JKR, given the number whose careers have benefitted from her work.

RoyalCorgi · 22/07/2021 11:02

The most illuminating thing about this whole debate is that it has revealed the number of men who hold women in utter contempt - yes, women are fine in their place, as long as they don't think they can say no to men. It turns out that it's not just the extreme MRAs who hate women who stand up for themselves, but lots of men you previously might have thought were progressive or liberal.

It has had the effect of making me feel particularly grateful to those few men who have dared to stand up for women. It's a bit sad, really, when you feel so much gratitude to someone just for meeting the absolute minimum standards of human decency.

Shedbuilder · 22/07/2021 11:12

Yes, RoyalCorgi. Never before in my life has the fact that so many apparently intelligent, educated, sensitive men think of women as irrelevant, second-rate not-men whose ideas and existence aren't important or interesting.

Philip Pullman reminds me of a former boss who was an out-and-out misogynist. When I left I told him what I thought of him and his response was 'I don't hate women, I'm married to one'. Poor woman.

cocoapopfan · 22/07/2021 11:42

I suspect the way Pullman sees this is that he stepped up and condemned the abuse of JKR as Nick Cohen (a male journalist) was challenging blue ticks to do. But instead of everyone falling over with gratitude, people started reminding him of his history on this and that pesky Jane Harris challenged him to sign a petition.

So he dashes off a pompous and tetchy response.

It’s a shame if it makes him dig down because I think lots of people do admire him. I’d guess though the penny is dropping and he’s realising that the lovely people in his tribe telling him who the “bigots” are maybe aren’t as reliable as he’d assumed.

I’ve been reading Helen Joyce’s book and it actually mentions Rachel Rooney and quotes Clara Vulliamy.

Freespeecher · 22/07/2021 12:24

Regarding the whole petition thing, I'm fine with people asking me to sign various petitions on various things but would think it perfectly reasonable if Pullman (or anyone else) kicked back against people coming back on multiple occasions demanding they sign or wanting to know why they didn't sign such-and-such a petition. Seem to remember the Graun staff having a petition on some contentious issue and non-signers having to answer for themselves which is not how it's supposed to be (imho).

I'd still expect him to do so politely though - is the issue less that he didn't sign and more that he took off on the petitioner?

LastSummerHere · 22/07/2021 12:34

@RoyalCorgi

The most illuminating thing about this whole debate is that it has revealed the number of men who hold women in utter contempt - yes, women are fine in their place, as long as they don't think they can say no to men. It turns out that it's not just the extreme MRAs who hate women who stand up for themselves, but lots of men you previously might have thought were progressive or liberal.

It has had the effect of making me feel particularly grateful to those few men who have dared to stand up for women. It's a bit sad, really, when you feel so much gratitude to someone just for meeting the absolute minimum standards of human decency.

Yes, it's quite something when we feel grateful to the men who treat us like the human beings we are.

cocoapopfan · 22/07/2021 13:33

I'd still expect him to do so politely though - is the issue less that he didn't sign and more that he took off on the petitioner?

Oh, I'm not defending his response at all. I think she had every right to ask.

AmericanSlang · 22/07/2021 13:53

God, he's tweeting "GC? What does that mean?" now, after yesterday lecturing everyone about how well informed he is. Honestly I really think he's just being a goady fucker at this point.

RoyalCorgi · 22/07/2021 14:04

@AmericanSlang

God, he's tweeting "GC? What does that mean?" now, after yesterday lecturing everyone about how well informed he is. Honestly I really think he's just being a goady fucker at this point.
That's very funny. It shows he has really only listened to one side of the debate. He's not the only one, of course.
LastSummerHere · 22/07/2021 14:10

@AmericanSlang

God, he's tweeting "GC? What does that mean?" now, after yesterday lecturing everyone about how well informed he is. Honestly I really think he's just being a goady fucker at this point.

I am sure of it. His faux ignorance wore thin months ago and I see that's still his tedious shtick.

AmericanSlang · 22/07/2021 14:23

He either knows literally nothing about this debate, in which case he should start listening & stop claiming to be Mr Expert, or he's just shit stirring & laughing at us all, in which case he should just fuck right off

TheSlayer · 22/07/2021 14:26

Well, he's off my imaginary authors dinner party.
JK, Edith Nesbitt, Bram Stoker, Kit Marlowe, Mary Shelly, HC Anderson(if he promises not to be weird)

Obviously they're all on one table and I've been assigned to the kiddy table, as not equal to towering intellects.

TheSlayer · 22/07/2021 14:31

And God does his dark material's work well as a gender ideology analogy.
Operating on children to keep them in arrested development.
Having one rule for your children and another for hypothetical (how many parents would honestly cheerlead unnecessary surgery for their own child)

Phillip's Daemon is definitely a dog(in the books these are people who follow orders and ideology without question)

Tanith · 22/07/2021 14:46

"is the issue less that he didn't sign and more that he took off on the petitioner?"

As I recall, the petition went out and he tweeted that he would have signed, had he been asked. That prompted replies that it wasn't too late, he could still sign. He then backed off, saying he couldn't possibly sign something he hadn't read and didn't know about.

Signing, or not, isn't a problem.
Claiming you would have signed, if only you'd been asked, then backtracking and attacking the people who offer you that option is disingenuous.

cocoapopfan · 22/07/2021 14:47

Wow. That's quite a tweet.

I mean, always good to admit to ignorance, but maybe not after you've just claimed a deep knowledge of the arguments ...

Freespeecher · 22/07/2021 16:58

Tanith
Thanks - I initially had the impression it was an aggressive type going around demanding why certain celebs hadn't signed up which obviously isn't the case regarding Pullman weaseling out of a prior commitment.

oneglassandpuzzled · 22/07/2021 17:07

@TheSlayer

Well, he's off my imaginary authors dinner party. JK, Edith Nesbitt, Bram Stoker, Kit Marlowe, Mary Shelly, HC Anderson(if he promises not to be weird)

Obviously they're all on one table and I've been assigned to the kiddy table, as not equal to towering intellects.

I hope Kit is a bit like he's portrayed on Upstart Crow.
LittlePearl · 22/07/2021 17:25

Fortunately I have always thought he was vile, so no disappointment here.

A pompous man acting according to type.

LastSummerHere · 22/07/2021 18:09

@LittlePearl

Fortunately I have always thought he was vile, so no disappointment here.

A pompous man acting according to type.

It's all hijinks to him and to every privileged man. They are so rich and privileged that life is boring - shitting on women gives them a fun distraction.

PieceOfString · 22/07/2021 18:13

@AmericanSlang

God, he's tweeting "GC? What does that mean?" now, after yesterday lecturing everyone about how well informed he is. Honestly I really think he's just being a goady fucker at this point.
I like this answer... Gender extremists say we must change our sexed bodies to match our personalities

Religious Right says our sexed body dictates the personality we're allowed to have

GC feminism says we shouldn't change our sexed bodies to match our personalities;any body can have any personality

LastSummerHere · 22/07/2021 18:25

@PieceOfString that is exactly it. It's disgusting how GC people, both men and women, are demonised for being the only people fighting for liberation from oppressive stereotypes.

HelenJoyce · 22/07/2021 18:28

Never thought I’d say it, but when I read tweets like this it makes me thankful TP died when he did. I couldn’t bear it if he did similar.

KittenKong · 22/07/2021 18:29

He wouldn’t. I couldn’t have seen that happen.

BreatheAndFocus · 22/07/2021 18:45

@AmericanSlang

God, he's tweeting "GC? What does that mean?" now, after yesterday lecturing everyone about how well informed he is. Honestly I really think he's just being a goady fucker at this point.
Yes, he thinks he’s being clever. He’s put that out there knowing TRAs will come along and provide their usual fake descriptions - KM’s being a particularly daft one as often is. So he’s sitting back smirking as others label GC people “anti-trans” or, like Katie, simply say it means the exact opposite of what it does. All this adds adds to the swirl of confusion and adds the attempt to sideline anyone who dares to say women’s rights matter.