David Aaronovitch Review of Helen Joyce's Book

[Igneococcus]

In the Times today:

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/a9738a12-e57d-11eb-afdb-c7b01afbcfc5?shareToken=bde4e05d2955fb1682ae3da09be1f707

Final paragaph:

"I’m off the fence. I will call people by the name and pronouns they tell me they want to be called by. I am prepared to defend their right not to be discriminated against at work and in shops, to defend them against bullying and harassment. But as Joyce says so passionately, that doesn’t change reality. A penis is a male sex organ, men don’t have babies. Women exist."

I'm going to donate this book to my local community school.

Good article.

Having semiconsciously harboured for many years the natal male’s fear of castration (and doesn’t this subject quickly become personal?) I realised I had been one of those closet “transphobes” repulsed by the thought of sex-change and so was newly anxious at the very least to be sympathetic to the cause.

Is this one of the reasons men are often a bit sycophantic - do the soft voice when interviewing etc? And why the vocal, aggressive TWAW men often turn out to have used transphobic slurs in the past? (Not saying DA would have done this to be clear.)

Excellent article. Thanks for the link.

Good to read. I heard DA discussing something with Matt Chorley a few months back and got the impression he thought it was women making a fuss about nothing. Good to know he’s moving in the right direction. Especially as most of us can attest, once you see it, you can’t unsee it.

Have just read the article- will buy this book. Thanks David for sticking up for women.

I normally disagree with David Aaronovitch but fair play to him here. Yesterday's article was about when he belatedly realised that Communist Cuba might not be a worker's utopia after all so, you know, he tends to get there in the end.

He did an article about the culture war a little while ago in which in was definitely dismissed as women being silly so it looks like the book has peaked him.

I had the absolute pleasure yesterday of my 50 odd year old male colleague launching into a “do you know what I heard on the radio earlier? They’re trying to get rid of the word woman! Bloody ridiculous etc etc”. Then I told him about Laurel Hubbard, he was outraged and wanted to know what could be done so I offered a few options on who to write to

The more men get there the better, I’m not even bothered it’s taken them a ridiculous amount of time let’s just go for it get the men onside and then hopefully things will start to change

Way to go David. I wonder how many times Helen had to redraft to dial down the polemic?

This is spot on:
"A recognisably totalitarian declension seemed to be being imposed: if you said biological sex was real then you argued with the ability of someone who felt they should be the other sex to simply assert that uncontested. That meant you were denying their “existence” as the new sex. Which was tantamount to denying their existence as a human being. Which was close to saying you wanted them and everyone like them dead. Which is the kind of thing the Nazis did. So you’re a Nazi. And we can’t let Nazis publish Nazi thoughts in books. Or speak at universities, or sully our public spaces with their terrible prejudice"

Looked for the Guardian review. Is there one , I couldn't find it?

I'm reading the book now. It really is extraordinarily good.

Good review

Looking forward to sitting in the garden with new parasol all weekend reading this, which I preordered as soon as it was announced.

If the book has a flaw it is that Joyce is sometimes too angry and polemical. This is a book that needs to be read by those who think they might disagree with her far more than by those who already agree, so tone matters. But I suppose the truth is that without that anger and, frankly, that bravery this argument would have gone by default.

This is an interesting quote from the review.

I spent all yesterday reading the book and thought Helen was very restrained considering. Amazing how any level of righteous anger from women is alway too angry.

“Totalitarian declension” is my new favourite phrase.

Solid review, but the sideswipe at women being angry is unnecessary maybe it’s the castration anxiety again?

No comments on the article - because of the content or are they waiting to check everything carefully before it’s posted?

Comments are starting to appear now toffee

@OvaHere

If the book has a flaw it is that Joyce is sometimes too angry and polemical. This is a book that needs to be read by those who think they might disagree with her far more than by those who already agree, so tone matters. But I suppose the truth is that without that anger and, frankly, that bravery this argument would have gone by default.

This is an interesting quote from the review.

I spent all yesterday reading the book and thought Helen was very restrained considering. Amazing how any level of righteous anger from women is alway too angry.

No matter how calm and not angry women are when we try to explain this we are always too angry. Then when women try really really hard not to be angry and to get the message heard like Kathleen stock did they get blasted for being too mimsy and pandering.

Too angry? I don’t think women are angry enough to be honest. Told to ‘be kind’, conditioned to be doormats...

@TheHandmadeTails

Having semiconsciously harboured for many years the natal male’s fear of castration (and doesn’t this subject quickly become personal?) I realised I had been one of those closet “transphobes” repulsed by the thought of sex-change and so was newly anxious at the very least to be sympathetic to the cause.

Is this one of the reasons men are often a bit sycophantic - do the soft voice when interviewing etc? And why the vocal, aggressive TWAW men often turn out to have used transphobic slurs in the past? (Not saying DA would have done this to be clear.)

I thought that was a very interesting insight (or perhaps confirmation of a suspicion) into why so many men instinctively jump on the bandwagon for “trans rights”, yet often are found to have made earlier statements using words that are solidly considered inappropriate slurs.

I like Aaronovitch's writing and I loved this review

@Abhannmor

I'm going to donate this book to my local community school.

It will disappear off the shelf within a day of being known about.

I'm a bit surprised, from Ben's books I thought he was leaning towards supporting self-ID.