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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Is this a man or a woman?

364 replies

GreatBigBird · 13/07/2021 23:21

YABU: woman

YANBU: man

www.cp24.com/news/woman-charged-after-allegedly-sexually-assaulting-boy-6-in-toronto-park-1.5507641

I can’t even begin to express myself.

OP posts:
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6
SnoopyLights · 14/07/2021 12:30

@DumplingsAndStew

So what happens now if a woman reports an attack by a man, who later reveals he is actually a transwoman, but preference is to be called a woman?

As well as possibly hindering a police investigation and a prosecution, can the victim be accused of a hate crime?

Maria MacLachlan (60) was told in court that she had to refer to her attacker (25) as 'she' as she gave evidence about the assault.

In an interview she gave after the trial, she said this about the experience of being forced to give evidence she felt wasn't accurate, and how it felt to be made to say "she" in court while reliving her ordeal.

My experience of court was much worse than the assault. I was the one on trial that day and if it hadn’t been for the clear video evidence that I’d been assaulted, my assailant wouldn’t have been convicted, even though there were over a dozen witnesses who could have said what happened.

I was asked “as a matter of courtesy” to refer to my assailant as either “she” or as “the defendant.”

I have never been able to think of any of my assailants as women because, at the time of the assault, they all looked and behaved very much like men and I had no idea that any of them identified as women.

After he was arrested, the defendant posted vile misogynistic comments on his Facebook page that no woman would ever make. He was also filmed aggressively intimidating a woman on a picket line, shouting obscenities at her. In what sense is this person a woman?

I tried to refer to him as “the defendant,” but using a noun instead of a pronoun is an unnatural way to speak.

It was while I was having to relive the assault and answer questions about it while watching it on video that I slipped back to using “he” and earned a rebuke from the judge. I responded that I thought of the defendant “who is male, as a male.”

The judge never explained why I was expected to be courteous to the person who had assaulted me or why I wasn’t allowed to narrate what happened from my own perspective, given that I was under oath.

His rebuke and the defence counsel’s haranguing of me for the same reason just made me more nervous and I so continued to inadvertently refer to my male assailant as “he.”

In his summing up, the judge said I had shown “bad grace” and used this as an excuse not to award compensation.

One writer said, “It was as if the state had colluded with the defendant to take one last stab at the victim,” and that’s exactly how it felt.

That wasn’t the worst part, however. The worst part was when four friends of the defendant gave evidence claiming that, prior to the attack on me, I had been going around abusing the protestors and filming although I’d been repeatedly asked not to. There was no video evidence of this because it simply didn’t happen, but the judge still chose to believe it.

In fact there is video evidence that, prior to the assault, I was nowhere near the protesters and was simply chatting to new acquaintances, but that footage wasn’t admitted in evidence nor were the witnesses invited to testify.

EmmaGrundyForPM · 14/07/2021 12:36

@SnoopyLights that is awful.

anon12345678901 · 14/07/2021 12:57

@SnoopyLights that poor woman, she's been let down by the justice system. The individuals in question don't deserve respect from anyone, call them exactly what they are, monsters and male. How dare the judge even ask that of her.

MistressOfEvilMaleficent · 14/07/2021 12:59

@FreeBritnee

Lack of Adams apple.makes it ambiguous. My gut instinct is man but it could be a trans man who has taken hormones 😬
FreeBritnee I think, but I could be wrong that if Ruby were a transman they would report Ruby as being a man, as that is how they identify? Also surely Ruby to feel more comfortable if they were a transman would be Rodney and not Ruby 🤷🏻‍♀️

I think that's how this game works now.

But to be honest, I'm completely confused on who is what, and what to say these days. I've been silenced by sheer confusion 😳

MotionActivatedDog · 14/07/2021 13:02

Maria MacLachlan (60) was told in court that she had to refer to her attacker (25) as 'she' as she gave evidence about the assault.

This just blows my mind. Court- the one place where you are legally obliged to tell the truth and the victim of a crime is being told, by the court to give false evidence. Confused

Furries · 14/07/2021 13:05

@FreeBritnee - have attached a couple of screenshots taken from other threads.

Is this a man or a woman?
Is this a man or a woman?
Is this a man or a woman?
littlbrowndog · 14/07/2021 13:10

Instructed to tell a lie by a judge. 🙁

Then told off for not repeating the lie

Will that wee boy have to tell a lie as well 🤷‍♀️🤷‍♀️

EdgeOfACoin · 14/07/2021 13:18

Oh, this has been moved to the naughty corner, has it? Hmm

andthedogtoo · 14/07/2021 13:21

@littlbrowndog

Instructed to tell a lie by a judge. 🙁

Then told off for not repeating the lie

Will that wee boy have to tell a lie as well 🤷‍♀️🤷‍♀️

I would imagine he will have to. The reality is that men's feeling come before anything else.
Staffy1 · 14/07/2021 13:37

Ugh, so annoying. How have so many authorities been persuaded to go along with this bullshit?

Hullaballooooo · 14/07/2021 15:17

A blog on the strange rise in crimes that used to generally committed by men among women:
mickhartley.typepad.com/blog/2021/07/woman-charged-after-sexual-assault.html

PS another interesting post on the same blog re sports participants at high levels too: mickhartley.typepad.com/blog/2021/07/mediocre-men-thriving-in-womens-sports-1.html
Mildly amused at the comment about waiting for the first trans-man to enter a drag queen contest.

PurgatoryOfPotholes · 14/07/2021 16:09

Toronto police have commented that "Ruby identifies as a woman".

Is this a man or a woman?
SheldonesqueTheBstard · 14/07/2021 16:11

Does she aye?

PurgatoryOfPotholes · 14/07/2021 16:13

Well, we now know that Ruby is definitely not a transman being prosecuted under a birthname...

toffeebutterpopcorn · 14/07/2021 16:34

@PurgatoryOfPotholes

Toronto police have commented that "Ruby identifies as a woman".
So if they identify as innocent with the Toronto police let them go free?
Sophoclesthefox · 14/07/2021 16:36

@SheldonesqueTheBstard

Does she aye?
Quite.
toffeebutterpopcorn · 14/07/2021 16:44

I believe the correct response is ‘did she shite?’

anon12345678901 · 14/07/2021 17:05

@PurgatoryOfPotholes

Toronto police have commented that "Ruby identifies as a woman".
I bet he does.
dyslek · 14/07/2021 17:41

I showed this to people at work today and their jaws were on the floor. One young woman said 'how come no one knows about this?'

dyslek · 14/07/2021 17:43

@Staffy1

Ugh, so annoying. How have so many authorities been persuaded to go along with this bullshit?
I think alot of people would like to know that.
EmmaGrundyForPM · 14/07/2021 17:45

Annoying isn't the word I would use

Frightening
Kafkaesque
Surreal
Nightmarish

those are my thoughts. Especially when reading the piece above re Maria MacLachlan

SheldonesqueTheBstard · 14/07/2021 17:46

Chewin the fat had a women with rather superior olfactory skills.

olive actory

Runningupthecurtains · 14/07/2021 19:19

*investigators believe there may be other victims.

Police are asking anyone with information related to the investigation to contact investigators or Crime Stoppers*

They might have more success appealing for other victims of they told the truth. Someone who was assaulted by a man isn't that like to come forward as the victim of a woman are they?

MrsRockAndRoll · 14/07/2021 19:45

I didn't realise there was this much movement of threads!

BlackAlys · 14/07/2021 23:20

@dyslek

I showed this to people at work today and their jaws were on the floor. One young woman said 'how come no one knows about this?'
Maybe people who've been preaching kindness will now realise the shitstorm that's gaining momentum for women and children.

Maybe they'll realise that safeguarding and law isn't built on kindness to individuals.

Maybe now, just maybe there's a glimmer of hope that they'll start to understand some of what we've been trying to tell them. It's just fucking heartbreaking that women and children are getting hurt in the meantime.

But, this never happens, does it.

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