Non Binary passport appeal on Mon

[Imnobody4]

Hadn't heard anything about this. Fingers crossed it goes the right way.

12th July an important appeal will be heard at the Supreme Court. A claimant called Mx Elan-Cane claims a non-binary identity and wants an X on their passport instead of Female. Elan-Cane argues this is a breach of their human rights. The UK government claims any such breach is justified because retaining the sex binary is important.

fairplayforwomen.com/non-binary-the-new-wolf-in-sheeps-clothing/

Yogyakarta Principles now on the table. 'These are extremely distinguished people in their field'. Acknowledges not binding law but a contribution to the debate. Judges asking about this. I think this is now conflating trans with non-binary of value. Seems Yogyakara Principles 10 does not have same signatories as the first but also seems to want self-id, with no safeguards whatsoever.

Lots of hogwash, which ought to embarrass those legal eagles presenting the case, but they seem not to care

Their legal team 'are not claiming' quite often, which is a way of dancing around the lack of legality

Could be inspired by the book Woman at the Edge of Time? That used per pronouns.

Surely that should be 'Persons on the Edge of Time'?

Hunan Rights Watch who are intervening, are now leaning on the Yogyakarta principles

"Judge: Is this consistent with international norms?
HRW: Yes!
Judge: How can that be true?
HRW: Its not universally applied but very important people have agreed it matches international consensus. /69"

FFS.

Human Rights Watch. They need so seriously have a think about 'rights'.

As an aside, are all of the intervenors going to be pro x in passports?

So we are all supposed to go around like 1970 sci fi film extras in jumpsuits with unisex haircuts and booties?

Oooooh non binary have been trying to hijack law (in Germany) which has been said is about intersex and not non-binary. Also, there is likely to be changes to all sorts of laws but skirted over this.

This is an interesting article on the development of the Yogyakarta principles and how the men and trans men who wrote it thought nothing of the impact on women

thecritic.co.uk/issues/april-2021/the-trans-rights-that-trump-all/

I thought FPFW were interveners?

@highame

I thought FPFW were interveners?

Not according to the third post on this thread.

Reading a bit about the background of this person - they seem to be quite extreme and rather unusual in their ideas and actions. So why are we all supposed to change to accommodate this person?

I’ve watched Elan Caines video. I am constantly amazed at the blithe talk of ‘gendered roles’ and the problem being not fitting into them. It’s like talking to a time traveler from the past not quite able to get their head round unisex clothing, wives being breadwinners while dad stays at home or mum out earning dad. Women as political leaders, women as engineers, men as nurses. And it makes me sad that instead of fighting the ugly restrictive and demeaning stereotypes of the past they think the only way out is to declare themselves non binary or trans.

From FPFW Twitter feed, Human Rights Watch apparently testified that:

“More and more US states are now adopting X passports.”

This can’t be correct. Passports are a federal document and are not issued by the states. Driver’s licences are, other ID cards, birth certificates, but not passports.

However, it was announced in June that the State department will be adding X on US passports, likely from September of this year.

Thanks ShagMeRiggins I had read, but then forgot so have just reminded myself. I assume Supreme court believes their is enough on the government side to cover this aspect. That might be a good thing.

I did just have a thought.

How would this work with children?

Could parents theoretically reapply for a.passport for the child with X on?

What happens in cases where one of the parents has lied about identity and is trying to take the child out of the country? If the airports are alerted to look for a man/woman with a 2 yr old girl, could an X get past them?

Would make an interesting episode of “banged up abroad” tho

I looked this up as it was on BBC Radio 2 news. I was half-listening but the report said the person appealing today had had two surgeries, the second on the NHS, and the fact that the NHS was happy to do the surgery to make them non-binary but that they weren't recognised as x was ? can't remember the wording, but that it didn't stack up. Then googled and found a piece where this person said we are all a little bit intersex and society needs to catch up. I'm a bit baffled to be honest. And curious about the surgery the NHS performed, and why.

twitter.com/fairplaywomen/status/1414594586350063617?s=19
Human Rights Watch has been given permission to intervene.
HRW submits that there is a well established general protection for identity to be recognised. This includes non-binary identities. Therefore there's no new development of law required here. /61

Lots of people are NB. The LGBT survey run by the GEO shows 52% of the trans respondents said they are non-binary. /62

HRW: No evidence of X passports causing trouble or complications in the 13 countries that have adopted them. More and more US states are now adopting X passports. This shows its a rapidly accelerating trend. /64

HRW now presents the Yogakarta principles - developed by "eminent and extremely distinguished experts in this field". Pedigree of experts include former UN human rights commissioners, judges, ACTIVISTS etc. HRW says these principles are not law but clearly very important! /66

YP recommends "states should take all legislative steps to reflect self-defined gender identity on documents". Judges asks what standing these principles have? HRW says the YP experts agree they 'reflect' the principles of human rights law - but are not binding in law /67

YP+10 goes further and says "everyone has the right to legal recognition of gender identity and to change gendered information". "While sex or gender continues to be registered on state documents there should be a multiplicity of gender options" /68

Judge: Is this consistent with international norms?
HRW: Yes!
Judge: How can that be true?
HRW: Its not universally applied but very important people have agreed it matches international consensus. /69

HRW: If court accepts the appellant's modest claim to an X marker in passports this does not involve recognising any new principles. It is simply applying well recognised principles. /71

Adjourned: resitting at 10.30am tomorrow /72

But the people who came up with the Yogakarta principles aren't anyone special, are they? They're just a bunch of trans people who went on vacation and wrote them.

There's no expertise to be had.

Frankly, there is no expertise about any of it. They talk about trans people like they aren't either people with gender dysphoria, or people who want to dress as the opposite sex, for whatever reason.

What else is there?

It's ridiculous that anyone is giving any of this ear room.

Frankly, I can't wait to see the headlines if it goes through. The judiciary will be a laughing stock.

You can already change your sex on your passport (without a GRC). Since that’s the case, in many ways I’d prefer this case to win and allow an X (rainbow unicorn or whatever else someone wants)

Sine the field cannot be relied upon to show actual sex it might be better that it was an acknowledged free for all.