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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

#RepealTheGRA apparently 'hails from the right

269 replies

TheShadowyFeminist · 06/07/2021 13:55

Tweet by Ruth Serwotka

Does this have any basis in fact? I know plenty who think the GRA should be repealed. None have been right wing, ring leaning, aligned with the right or even come close to what Ruth states here.

This tweet is a flavour of what I've seen. And I think the sentiment is fairly accurate IMO.

What do others think? Do you think the GRA should be repealed? Are you or have you ever been, right wing, right leaning, right adjacent or meet the description Ruth has for women who have said the GRA should be repealed?

OP posts:
TedImgoingmad · 09/07/2021 14:21

On child rearing:

Although the children were not raised directly by their parents, they knew who their parents were and formed close bonds with them. Throughout the morning, parents looked forward to the end of the work day when they could go to the children's house and pick up the children to play with them and dote on them.

Children's societies were one of the features of kibbutz life that most interested outsiders. In the heyday of children's societies, parents would only spend two hours a day, typically in the afternoon, with their children. In Kibbutz Artzi parents were explicitly forbidden to put their children to bed at night. As children got older, parents could go for days on end without seeing their offspring, other than through chance encounters somewhere in the grounds.

Some children who went through children's societies said they loved the experience, others remain ambivalent. One vocal group maintains that growing up without one's parents was very difficult. Years later, a kibbutz member described her childhood in a children's society:

Allowed to suckle every four hours, left to cry and develop our lungs, we grew up without the basic security needed for survival. Sitting on the potty at regular intervals next to other children doing the same, we were educated to be the same; but we were, for all that, different.... At night the grownups leave and turn off all the lights. You know you will wet the bed because it is too frightening to go to the lavatory.

....

In a 1977 study, Fox[citation needed] compared the separation effects experienced by kibbutz children when removed from their mother, compared with removal from their caregiver (called a metapelet in Hebrew). He found that the child showed separation distress in both situations but, when reunited, children were significantly more attached to their mothers than to the metapelet. The children protested subsequent separation from their mothers when the metapelet was reintroduced to them. However, kibbutzim children shared high bonding with their parents as compared to those who were sent to boarding schools, because children in a kibbutz spent three to four hours with their parents every day.

In another study by Scharf, the group brought up in a communal environment within a kibbutz showed less ability in coping with imagined situations of separation than those who were brought up with their families.[33] This has far reaching implications for child attachment adaptability and therefore institutions like kibbutzim. These interesting kibbutz techniques are controversial with or without these studies.

A mixture of criticism and nostalgia by some 20 adults born in Kibbutzim in the 1930s was documented in the 2007 film Children of the Sun. The film raised much controversy and brought about a flood of reactions in favor and against the practices of child raising in Kibbutzim in those early years of the Kibbutz. Interviews were interlaced with original footage.

The organisation of child rearing within the kibbutzim was largely based around adult imperatives rather than what was best for the children; collective parenting was seen as a means of establishing gender equality between men and women. This was a common feature of many utopian communities.

TinselAngel · 09/07/2021 14:21

@SirSamuelVimes

I'm a dog person too, tinsel. We'll have a dog-centric old ladies household together.
There would have to be dogsville and catsville with a big wall between the two.
PurpleHoodie · 09/07/2021 14:22

tinsel

I'm totally cats.

I'll support you from three doors down GrinFlowers

TedImgoingmad · 09/07/2021 14:42

Black Lives Matter used to espouse this:

“We disrupt the Western-prescribed nuclear family structure requirement by supporting each other as extended families and ‘villages’ that collectively care for one another, especially our children, to the degree that mothers, parents, and children are comfortable,”

(Removed from the website following a hoohah).

PurpleHoodie · 09/07/2021 14:47

Eh?

FFS. Is that more imported North American shoite that we can quite easily ignore?

I say, yes.

So. Back to reality.

PurpleHoodie · 09/07/2021 14:48

Why do people persevere in trying to plop North American cultural shoite into MN FWR?

TedImgoingmad · 09/07/2021 15:02

Was that snark aimed at me, PurpleHoodie?

My purpose in posting was to answer the question above about how dismantling the family unit set up is supposed to look, and who is promoting it. The Kibbutz method looks like it died out naturally because it didn't work on a human level. BLM are espousing a similar model, so I would have thought that in itself would set alarm bells ringing.

Most posters here ignore anything I post anyway, so no need to panic. Having spent way too much time on FWR trying to stop it being fucked over by TRAs, I won't bother any more.

PurpleHoodie · 09/07/2021 15:04

OK.

Go well.

Keepemguessing · 09/07/2021 15:11

The problem is, whenever I've been in a group of women who start fantasising about this kind of future there always seems to be a lot of cats involved in the plan and I'm a dog person.

TinselAngel · 09/07/2021 15:21

#TeamDog

PurpleHoodie · 09/07/2021 15:24

Things just got serious.

Whoh.

This'll be the Fight Thread of 2021.

PurpleHoodie · 09/07/2021 15:25

#Meow

OldTurtleNewShell · 09/07/2021 15:44

We disrupt the Western-prescribed nuclear family structure requirement by supporting each other as extended families and ‘villages’ that collectively care for one another, especially our children, to the degree that mothers, parents, and children are comfortable

The problem with no particular person having responsibility is that all the exhausting jobs are still there: the endless bottom and snotty nose wiping, putting overtired screaming toddlers to bed, watching them so they don't drown in the bath or climb onto things they can fall off of.
That's the kind of shit that some people don't even think of, and others don't feel like they have any choice in doing because they know that if they don't do it, the child won't get fed/nappy changed etc.
The problems within the nuclear family structure don't go away in that scenario, they just apply across more people.

PurpleHoodie · 09/07/2021 15:46

The problems within the nuclear family structure don't go away in that scenario, they just apply across more people.

Girls and women.

OldTurtleNewShell · 09/07/2021 15:46

Also, I like both cats and dogs. Is there a non-binary version of this commune? #TeamCog

PurpleHoodie · 09/07/2021 15:46

Mostly.

WhatKatyDidNot · 09/07/2021 15:48

The Kibbutz method looks like it died out naturally because it didn't work on a human level. BLM are espousing a similar model, so I would have thought that in itself would set alarm bells ringing.

I will respond to you!

Yes. Communal childrearing doesn't work, which is why, outside of the totalitarian countries who have tried it, kibbutzim died out naturally as a national force within a generation.

I posted about Ruth's views on the family mostly so that people would understand why she is forever banging on about right wing forces. This section of the crank left does genuinely believe you are right wing if you don't want to abolish the family - thus rendering 99% of the country right wing, whether they like it or not. Much as the Woke wing of the Labour Party likes to call her a right wing bigot, she has as much in common with them as she does with us.

WhatKatyDidNot · 09/07/2021 15:48

Cat person here. I come correct.

OldTurtleNewShell · 09/07/2021 15:48

@PurpleHoodie

The problems within the nuclear family structure don't go away in that scenario, they just apply across more people.

Girls and women.

Quite. We all know which of the sexes will be expected to do the dirty work while the other refuses to even notice there's a problem, even if we're no longer allowed to name them.
Mermoose · 09/07/2021 16:06

If anyone wanted a surefire way to undermine and divide the Left, they couldn't pick a better way than to say that gender recognition is firmly and solely leftwing, and that the only hope of repealing it is to vote for parties on the right.

PurpleHoodie · 09/07/2021 16:14

But "gender recognition" is not solely a Left wing thing.

Hence

#PoliticallyHomeless in the UK

BaronMunchausen · 09/07/2021 17:22

@TheShadowyFeminist

Tweet by Ruth Serwotka

Does this have any basis in fact? I know plenty who think the GRA should be repealed. None have been right wing, ring leaning, aligned with the right or even come close to what Ruth states here.

This tweet is a flavour of what I've seen. And I think the sentiment is fairly accurate IMO.

What do others think? Do you think the GRA should be repealed? Are you or have you ever been, right wing, right leaning, right adjacent or meet the description Ruth has for women who have said the GRA should be repealed?

Of course it has no basis in fact.

By the same token, those who target feminists and identify women specifically as 'bigots' and 'fascists' - in a world where violent transphobia is pretty much exclusively male - align themselves with those who 'hail from the Right' and use terms like 'feminazi'.

Though this may just be clumsy expression on Ruth Serwotka's part? It would help clarify things if she could identify those from the right who want to "completely undo" trans rights.

BaronMunchausen · 09/07/2021 17:32

@ConcernedNineteen
"I believe victims. the woman in that video was not, and does not claim to be a victim, and there is no actual evidence that there was a victim, a victimiser, or an incident".

She has spoken about it as a trauma, and in the original video clearly regarded the flasher as the victimiser and her daughter as a main victim.

What would you consider to be satisfactory evidence in this case? Other women have spoken about similar incidents there - one had kept her receipts from the day - are they also making it up? Why would you be so sceptical?

ViperAtTheGatesOfDawn · 09/07/2021 17:50

The problem with socialist feminism for me is that it expects every adult to be working, and for 'society' to produce good workers. This is detrimental to children (through breaking the mother-child dyad and denigrating mothers who choose to mother) and disabled people (let's not forget that eugenics came from the left and its goal of creating a strong worker class).

Both socialism and capitalism align in expecting people to be economically active and both are detrimental to mothers and motherhood. Which isn't a surprise as both are patriarchal political constructs.

BaronMunchausen · 09/07/2021 18:09

Eugenics didn’t come from the left.

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