Helen Webberley

[Signalbox]

Looks like Helem Webberley's substantive case has finally been listed for 26th July 2021

www.mpts-uk.org/hearings-and-decisions/medical-practitioners-tribunals/dr-helen-webberley-jul-21

What a chilling thread - and thank you to all the medics and informed posters who are explaining / clarifying what's happening.

I am aghast at the dismal levels of medical ethics / professionalism that have been offered to vulnerable children.

With regards comments speculating on Webberley's motivation, I don't think she is purely a grifter.
If that were true, I find it difficult to believe she'd be so stupid as to risk it with this kind of comment indicating its her 'mission' to give kids 'puberty with their peers' i.e cross sex hormones from puberty.
I think she'd be trying to fly a little more under the radar rather than being so blatant.
I think she is a true believer. There are plenty of them about. Unfortunately, the history of medicine is littered with crusading individuals pushing unneeded and horrific treatments.

I agree OldTurtle.

A friend of mine is an HCP and works in an LGBTQIA+ sexual health clinic. She said to me "I just don't understand why anyone would deny a child puberty blockers"

I don't understand what it is about gender that means an HCPs critical thinking and reflective practice gets suspended. She's an otherwise excellent sexual health nurse. But on this stuff, she's an actual idiot IMO. Of course, she thinks I'm great, apart from on this stuff where I'm a nasty old bigot. One of us is right, and it's not her.

@OldTurtleNewShell

With regards comments speculating on Webberley's motivation, I don't think she is purely a grifter. If that were true, I find it difficult to believe she'd be so stupid as to risk it with this kind of comment indicating its her 'mission' to give kids 'puberty with their peers' i.e cross sex hormones from puberty. I think she'd be trying to fly a little more under the radar rather than being so blatant. I think she is a true believer. There are plenty of them about. Unfortunately, the history of medicine is littered with crusading individuals pushing unneeded and horrific treatments.

I’m boggled that a GP can think this way.

What is puberty? The definition:

Puberty is the process of physical changes through which a child's body matures into an adult body capable of sexual reproduction

Putting a child on GNRH analogue prevents those physical changes from occurring, and if the child then moves on to cross sex hormones those changes will never happen. The genitals will never mature, the fertility will never develop, the child will never fully mature into physical adulthood, and will not be independently capable of sexual reproduction. Cross sex hormones won’t trigger a cross sex puberty, because the cross sex hormones only represent a fraction of the full suite of hormones involved.

Bloody hell. With misinformation like this out there, no wonder this stuff takes hold.

I find it difficult to believe she'd be so stupid as to risk it with this kind of comment indicating its her 'mission' to give kids 'puberty with their peers' i.e cross sex hormones from puberty.

This tweet is still just selling snake oil. Puberty is the process of acquiring sexual maturity and the treatments she sells don’t enable that.

X post!

I don’t think it can be said too many times, merry. If you artificially close the door on puberty, then that’s it - the child will never physically mature into an adult body. you can hammer a male body as much as you like with oestrogen, it will never go through a female puberty, because being as as a female puberty is one that produces an adult, sexually mature female body, a male body cannot do that.

I don’t understand why allies aren’t shocked about that.

But if he doesn't take them there's a risk that he's gonna, you know his mental health is just gonna spiral, there's a risk that it will go into a tailspin that you'll end or, you know, with a life of, God knows, you know mental health issues with addictions are [unclear]. I'm not saying that it would happen. We've got to understand that that is a very high possibility. When we look at the, you know, the suicide risk. So so, not helping, there's probably more to consider by not giving the medication.

This is just one of the most morally bankrupt things I think I've read from this crew. I knew they were bad, but this is the speech of a sucking moral vacuum without end.

It is heart breaking. The 17 year old trans boy that committed suicide, after having been given testosterone by GenderGP, had identified as trans since the age of 13. When they contacted the NHS to ask for help, they were told that the NHS couldn't help them immediately, and that they would be put on a very long waiting list. By the time they got hormones off Helen Webberley, they may well have been suicidal already. It's heart breaking, the whole thing is. The NHS waiting lists for trans people in this country are shocking. The number of trans people who will have killed themselves, owing to no access to proper healthcare will be massive. Human beings killing themselves because of lack of proper healthcare. I guess none of that will make the headlines though.

@Nefelibata33

It is heart breaking. The 17 year old trans boy that committed suicide, after having been given testosterone by GenderGP, had identified as trans since the age of 13. When they contacted the NHS to ask for help, they were told that the NHS couldn't help them immediately, and that they would be put on a very long waiting list. By the time they got hormones off Helen Webberley, they may well have been suicidal already. It's heart breaking, the whole thing is. The NHS waiting lists for trans people in this country are shocking. The number of trans people who will have killed themselves, owing to no access to proper healthcare will be massive. Human beings killing themselves because of lack of proper healthcare. I guess none of that will make the headlines though.

Agreed, as a child they should have been given mental health support.

Then once actually an adult they can consent to proceed with serious body modification.

Unfortunately the mental health system isn't coping.

Maybe stonewall could invest in mental health issues in trans children.

I mean nobody right minded would take damaging life changing steps to stop puberty, based on what teenagers think they want, when they aren't old enough to understand the long term devastating consequences of those decisions.

Nobody would want healthy children having unecessary operations to achieve an unachievable goal. Human being cannot change sex. This fact is absolute. You can chop it all up, but it doesn't make you the other sex.

Children need impartial counselling in facts. Not abuse.

Puberty blockers aren't damaging. They just prevent the onset of puberty, it just gives someone who's trans time before the onset of something that they really don't want to happen.

I don't think adults who aren't trans have the right to tell kids who are trans what they can or can't do.

I despair really. It's not about protecting children ultimately. That's just an excuse for a load of unnecessary hatred. In reality, it's just that lots of people don't like trans people. I wish people would come out and say it, just be honest. It's irrational hatred

It isnt irrational hatred to not want to damage children’s bodies based upon decisions made in their teenage years. They need mental health support. They need to understand that ultimately they can change their body but not their sex.

Children are not equipped to make such life altering decisions, independent of outside influences.

They need support. There is no rush.

There is also conflicting evidence so far and there are serious concerns as to their long term safety.

I prefer not to experiment on children. It is not ethical or appropriate.

Oh and as for non-trans choosing for trans.

These are CHILDREN.

Parents decide for children.

Drs are supposed to make an oath to do no harm. That includes experimenting, with drugs known to have devastating impacts, on children.

It is ALL about safeguarding.

What they do as an adult is their informed choice.

If a parent has a child who is trans, they should love them and accept them. Not 'decide'.

Based upon a few rare cases where trans children have made the wrong decision, big decisions are being made for the future of trans children. It's important that children are cared for, but because of a few kids who made mistakes, all the genuine trans kids will suffer. And go through puberty, and become something that makes their lives hell.

I don't think anyone actually cares for the trans children who will have their lives ruined.

Parents do accept their children. They also know that children change their minds, a lot. As a parent I would not agree to such medical interventions with healthy children. I would pay for them to have impartial counselling.

Parents will do what is ethical and best for their long term health and wellbeing. If my child decides at 18 to be transgender, I will hold their hand all of the way. But I will not let my child be part of some experiment due to a social construct.

There is evidence that puberty blockers cause more children to progress to hormones than without. More children go on to mutilate health bodies when before they would have accepted them in 90% cases. There is no evidence that the long term suicide rate improves.

There is no evidence that puberty blockers, when stopped, result in proper puberty. The leave people sterile, with weakened bones, affected brains and other health problems. Over my dead body would anyone do that to my child on my watch.

Puberty blockers haven't been tested for long term use. The evidence so far doesn't look promising.

I don't have any hatred for trans people. It must be horrific to want something you can never, ever have. But I will not sacrifice my children to an ideology, not based in fact.

and become something that makes their lives hell.

You are misunderstanding what puberty blockers and cross sex hormones can achieve. Puberty is not a switch that can be turned off and restarted with a different sex, and puberty blockers do not have a neutral effect.

This is an indication of long term effects IF you are actually interested, which I doubt:

www.google.com/amp/s/www.pbs.org/newshour/amp/health/women-fear-drug-they-used-to-halt-puberty-led-to-health-problems

The number of trans people who will have killed themselves, owing to no access to proper healthcare will be massive.

There is definitely a lack of healthcare, but it is wrong and harmful to suggest that any group will inevitably commit suicide. Statistics don’t support this claim.

Whoever coined the phrase "puberty blockers prevent the onset of puberty" is a genius who could have solved world peace.
Imagine making an entire planet subconsciously believe a biological function is like water from a tap.

"Puberty blockers block puberty" is much, much closer to the truth. It does what it says on the tin.

Hayden’s death was after receiving cross sex hormones. Why do you think that demonstrates that earlier access to those hormones would have been a good idea? And the Tavistock data suggests worsening of mental health in natal girls after starting puberty blockers.

No one wants children to be distressed. But some conditions can’t be solved by ‘a tablet’ - medication is not magic - and your sex is one of those conditions.

*Jayden.

@Nefelibata33

If a parent has a child who is trans, they should love them and accept them. Not 'decide'.

Based upon a few rare cases where trans children have made the wrong decision, big decisions are being made for the future of trans children. It's important that children are cared for, but because of a few kids who made mistakes, all the genuine trans kids will suffer. And go through puberty, and become something that makes their lives hell.

I don't think anyone actually cares for the trans children who will have their lives ruined.

What is a 'genuine trans kid'? Do you believe that some people are actually 'born in the wrong body'?

@Nefelibata33 we know that puberty is what turns a body from child to adult. We know not going through full puberty at an appropriate age causes physical development issues. There have been minimal explorerions into what this means for an adult by number, but it in developments.

There have been no studies on how stopping puberty impacts on emotional and brain development.

How can you advocate for stopping a natural physical process, with drugs, with no empirical evidence as to the impact, and this no days to provide when discussing consent.

It's an experiment, pure and simple, sold as a cure, which is a lie. Suicide rates in those who have transitioned are also high.

Why? Probably because before drugs, you're told these will fix you, then after you look different but still have the same mental health issues.

Puberty blockers and CSH do not fix autism, dysphoria, mental health issues, and body dissatisfaction in and of themselves. They must be a last resort for people for whom the disconnect with their sex is so profound there is no other choice.

Kids have always been non confirming. Only this time we are drugging them without enough knowledge of what this will do to them. When over 90% of kids on PBS move on to CSH and then likely surgery, we are effectively pushing kids into the path of sterilisation, lack of sexual function, and long term serious health complications. Most likely with a short life expectancy.

It's absolutely unconscionable.

My surgeon wants to put me onto ‘puberty blockers’ before surgical removal of my endometriosis. He’s very clear that without add back hrt I can only have it for 6 months in my entire life because of the rampant bone density loss. He’s also given me a massive list of side effects including depression, mood alteration and loss of libido amongst many others.

No fucking way would I consent to this for a child.