Advice: schools socially transitioning children without parental knowledge or consent.

[Libby55]

Hi,

The school I work in is socially transitioning children by changing their names and pronouns without informing parents. Adults working in school are supposed to keep this a secret when communicating with parents. I believe this is a safeguarding issue and that the school is harming children. This is something I know little about and I'm asking for help because I'm looking for an organisation that specifically campaigns against schools harming children in this way. My colleagues share my concerns but are afraid to raise their concerns. My union seems to have adopted gender identity politics. I have to do something: I can see children being harmed. If any of you know of a teacher's group that is lobbying against the practice of socially transitioning children without parents' knowledge or consent, please let me know. I would like to get involved.

@CandyLeBonBon " You are projecting your experience on to this situation and assuming things are still as utterly awful as your own situation."

I'm not projecting at all. I find many people on this thread are clearly still exactly where things were back in the 1980s - if their child doesn't trust them, they want to make sure their child doesn't trust anybody.

[quote EyeEdinburgh]@CandyLeBonBon " You are projecting your experience on to this situation and assuming things are still as utterly awful as your own situation."

I'm not projecting at all. I find many people on this thread are clearly still exactly where things were back in the 1980s - if their child doesn't trust them, they want to make sure their child doesn't trust anybody.[/quote]
You really really don't understand what safeguarding means and how it works. The only one stuck in the 80s is you.

Trust does not equal a guarantee to keep information from parents. This appears to be a blind spot for some.

[quote EyeEdinburgh]@CandyLeBonBon " You are projecting your experience on to this situation and assuming things are still as utterly awful as your own situation."

I'm not projecting at all. I find many people on this thread are clearly still exactly where things were back in the 1980s - if their child doesn't trust them, they want to make sure their child doesn't trust anybody.[/quote]
Well if you think that a one-on-one secret between a teacher and a child is a good thing, you are back in the '80s. And we all know what happened to children then

@EyeEdinburgh you’re projecting - the only angry I’ve seen is from you - you can’t see that safeguarding processes aren’t optional, it’s never a good idea for one person to hold information about a child and the concept of collaborative working between professionals and parents is well established as providing a safety net around the child.

I’m sorry that you were left unsupported, but by your own recognition that was some time ago - the world has turned many times since then and there’s better understanding of the need for a team of professionals around a child to hold them safely. That can and should be done with the child at the centre but child centred doesn’t mean child led, because we’re talking about children who need adult support and guidance. The law recognises that even if you don’t.

if their child doesn't trust them, they want to make sure their child doesn't trust anybody.
Trust isn’t borne in keeping secrets- it’s borne in openness and honesty. The type of honesty that says “if I’m worried about you, I need to share what you’ve told me”, which allows the child to decide what to share or not. Openness that says “you need more help with this than I can give you, part of that means talking to your parents, let’s talk about what that might mean for you”. Not “of course I’ll call you Gloria at school and will address your school report at Daniel”, not “what will I call you at parents evening, so your parents don’t know your ‘true self’”.

@Quaggars

They just would meaning just would call you by your chosen name for clarity (even if nothing to do with being trans)

If a boy called James told me his wanted to be called Sophie, I absolutely would phone his parents up. If he said he wanted to be called Jamie, then I would call him Jamie.

I wonder what the protocol is if a child tells a teacher that they are self-harming? Or anorexic (or bulimic)? Or being abused? Do posters think a teacher should promise secrecy in that case?

Or is this very special child/teacher relationship reserved for "gender-confused" children? Why do such children deserve such shoddy treatment by a system that is set up to protect all children?

It seems there's a misunderstanding of what safeguarding is. In a school it looks like this.
Step 1: Teacher dinner last etc notices or is told something. Before child discloses they make clear that they can't promise to keep secrets but it's a safe space and you will support them.
Step 2: safeguarding lead logs, collates with existing information, collaborates with professionals. Appropriate action is taken.

Some people seem to think it is.
Step one. Child disclosure.
Step two: tells parent.

Or that it should be:
Step one: disclosure
Step two: teacher tries to keep secrets and single handedly 'solve' the problem.
This scenario doesn't work. Teachers have 30 children to teach. They don't have the time or resources to address serious problems. That's why it's passed on to social services. Experts.

Exactly @TheSlayer

I was a technician in a school a few years ago and safeguarding training was drummed into us in exactly that vein and as a technician pupils often felt able to talk to me because I wasn't a teacher or a parent. I think posters here are demonising safeguarding because they think it equals 'snitching'

@ool0n

It's illegal to out a trans kid to their parents, because parents are often abusive to LGBTQIA kids. So the safeguarding approach is not to out them to someone you don't know is going to treat them well.

NEU guidance - ""it would be a criminal offence for someone who has been told that someone is trans in the course of their professional role to disclose this information without the consent of the student"
neu.org.uk/advice/supporting-trans-and-gender-questioning-students

Gender critics have recently lost 100s of thousands in legal cases challenging what the law clearly states. Don't start endangering children by following this bankrupt ideology.

Please be more careful with your assertions. The prohibition on sharing information about someone's trans status gained in one's professional role only applies to adults in possession of a GRC.

This thread is about minors. Child protection means that different rules apply. It is against the rules to promise a child to withhold important information about the child from its parents. There's no ifs and buts about that.

@9toenails Thanks again for confirming that your children are great parents who know how to protect their children against rude , bigoted adults. Your high opinion of your children as parents is evidently well justified.

@Jellycatspyjamas Thanks again for confirming - as indeed @TheSlayer and @Soontobe60 also do immediately below - that you strongly believe that a child who can't trust their parents should have no trusted adults to rely on.

@CandyLeBonBon Well, apparently the majority view of "safeguarding" on this thread is to make sure that a child who can't trust their parents shouldn't have any trusted adults in their life, because better a child is alone and unsupported than they have anyone they can depend on.

Fortunately, the Department of Education guidelines about safeguarding, which teachers' unions rely on for actual safeguarding in actual schools, do not support the majority belief on this thread.

What theslayer and many many others have said

Ive ‘worked’ in schools in a very peripheral way, as a governor, lunchtime supervisor and invigilator and the safeguarding training ive had has all said the same thing: no secrets ever

This thread is an eye opener.

I’m never entirely clear on why people who I would suppose describe themselves as trans allies are so keen to advocate that vulnerable, gender questioning children don’t get the same level of safeguarding, care and ethics that all other children do.

Thanks to all the posters who clearly work in relevant areas and know what they’re talking about for laying out so clearly how it should work.

An aside: if a parent doesn’t know their child is trans, how could the child know their parent will be abusively transphobic to them? And how would the teacher know that assessment is accurate? Doesn’t add up as a reason to chuck every protocol out of the window.

You don't know what you are talking about.

Well, apparently the majority view of "safeguarding" on this thread is to make sure that a child who can't trust their parents shouldn't have any trusted adults in their life, because better a child is alone and unsupported than they have anyone they can depend on.

Nope.
Yet again you appear to be extrapolating based on your own incredibly traumatic experience.

Bearing in mind you weren't even aware of the way parent consultations are currently conducted, I'd suggest that you probably need to process the way you were treated first, in a way that feels safe, with an approved therapist, because your posts are coming from a ver singular snd one dimensional angle, and are focussed on your own, very difficult experience.

Safeguarding does not mean that a child cannot trust another adult. On the contrary. Often, having an adult who understands the necessity for safeguarding, means the child can offload the guilt of 'fessing up' because they no longer have to bear the burden of that secret alone, and if they are involved with unsupportive or abusive parents, there is a whole network of agencies on their team, to ensure they get the support they need. Nothing about safeguarding is aligned to telling a child they shouldn't be trans. It's everything about helping that child navigate incredibly difficult feelings in a way that doesn't make them feel isolated and alone.

I really don't think you understand what good safeguarding looks like at all.

Why do you think lgbt children deserve less protection than other children @EyeEdinburgh?

[quote MrsOvertonsWindow]Given the levels of misinformation here about safeguarding, here's a link to the statutory guidance that all schools must follow. It states:

Any staff member who has a concern about a child’s welfare should follow the referral processes set out in paragraphs 41-53

There are no exceptions, no keeping secrets, no deciding that individual adults or schools or teaching unions know better.

assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/954314/Keeping_children_safe_in_education_2020_-Update-_January_2021.pdf[/quote]
Fortunately, the Department of Education guidelines about safeguarding, which teachers' unions rely on for actual safeguarding in actual schools, do not support the majority belief on this thread.

Did you miss the post I've quoted above @EyeEdinburgh?

People have repeatedly told you that these guidelines should be followed.

Absolutely, candy

I just want to point this out, the original scenario that Libby was getting so worked up about, doesn't represent any kind of child endangerment.

Gloria comes to school and tells the class teacher: "In class, would you use he/him pronouns for me and use Dennis? I've tried telling my parents I want to be Dennis, but they don't listen to me: I'd like to be Dennis some of the time." (I'm summarising this for the sake of space - I don't really expect a child would put it that compactly.)

Teacher (obviously) discusses this with their headteacher and other appropriate people at the school. The school concludes that if Dennis is happier when called Dennis in class and the teacher uses he/him pronouns, no harm is being done and there is no obvious reason to tell the parents instantly.

Several things might happen, including, quite possibly, Gloria coming into the classroom after weeks or months of being Dennis, and saying "Changed my mind, I don't want to be Dennis, call me Gloria and use she/her".

Or Dennis telling the teacher "I want to be Dennis all the time now" and the teacher pointing out that this does mean sitting down and talking to his parents. If Dennis doesn't want to take that step but is happier being called Dennis in class, again - how is this any indication that Dennis is in danger? The longer Dennis goes on being Dennis at school, the more strongly the school are, justly, to feel that there needs to be a conversation with the parents - not least because (as a post well upthread made clear) it's unreasonable to expect the other kids in class to not say that Dennis is Dennis.

But the notion that the majority of commenters on this thread seem to have, that it would be wrong to allow Dennis the freedom and space to find out for himself that he wants to be Dennis all of the time (and, conversely, the freedom and space to find out that Gloria didn't want to be Dennis any more, having tried out beng Dennis in real life) because the parents have got to be told instantly, because their minor child has zero right to decide for themselves when to have that conversation with their parents about being Dennis. It is not "safeguarding" - and indeed, Department of Education guidelines make this clear - for a child to know they have no adults they can trust in their life.

I'm not reading anymore of your comments.
You don't know what you are talking about.